Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Bj-Monster23

The reason Rivera shouldn't return.

62 posts in this topic

Just to play devil's advocate here, lemme ask this question:

To the folks saying of Rivera that he can only win when it's meaningless and we're playing crappy teams, what's to stop people from applying that same disclaimer to Cam Newton? Ditto DeAngelo Williams. Or even Greg Hardy for that matter.

(and please try to respond with something more intelligent than 'haters gonna hate')

The reality is that the team as a whole, both players and coaches, is improving. And yes, in that context, an argument can indeed be made for not switching horses in midstream.

Like it or not, that's reality.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just to play devil's advocate here, lemme ask this question:

To the folks saying of Rivera that he can only win when it's meaningless and we're playing crappy teams, what's to stop people from applying that same disclaimer to Cam Newton? Ditto DeAngelo Williams. Or even Greg Hardy for that matter.

(and please try to respond with something more intelligent than 'haters gonna hate')

The reality is that the team as a whole, both players and coaches, is improving. And yes, in that context, an argument can indeed be made for not switching horses in midstream.

Like it or not, that's reality.

I've thought that myself - my justification to myself for applying that stamp to Rivera and our coaches, but not the players, is that I believe the responsibility for our early season losses lies more on the coaches than the players.

Early on this year every single aspect of our team had badly regressed, we were stubbornly running a silly offense scheme based around the read-option more than anything else, and our head coach admitted more than once that we just weren't prepared schematically. Not to mention that our QB got worse mechanically after spending an offseason with our coaches after making huge strides working with Weinke during the lockout.

The players had their moments where they could have won in spite of the poor coaching, and they certainly have their share of the blame, but I don't see enough blame going to them to earn that label just yet.

*edit*

I do realize that the scheme is different and the team is improving in all aspects - but we did the same thing last year then went backwards this year after a stronger finish than beginning.

I don't know what's in the coach's heads but I don't think it's a coincidence that our entire philosophy seems to be different when there's nothing to lose than when we aren't eliminated from postseason play entirely.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've thought that myself - my justification to myself for applying that stamp to Rivera and our coaches, but not the players, is that I believe the responsibility for our early season losses lies more on the coaches than the players.

Early on this year every single aspect of our team had badly regressed, we were stubbornly running a silly offense scheme based around the read-option more than anything else, and our head coach admitted more than once that we just weren't prepared schematically. Not to mention that our QB got worse mechanically after spending an offseason with our coaches after making huge strides working with Weinke during the lockout.

The players had their moments where they could have won in spite of the poor coaching, and they certainly have their share of the blame, but I don't see enough blame going to them to earn that label just yet.

*edit*

I do realize that the scheme is different and the team is improving in all aspects - but we did the same thing last year then went backwards this year after a stronger finish than beginning.

I don't know what's in the coach's heads but I don't think it's a coincidence that our entire philosophy seems to be different when there's nothing to lose than when we aren't eliminated from postseason play entirely.

I can understand if we are in the Eagles situation. Their players deserve a lot of the blame. I don't see our situation like that. That's why I believe the blame in this case goes mostly to the coaches.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm also not really sure the current system is worth keeping. Everything hinges on Newton. In many games we make him not only the engine, but also the wheels, transmission, wipers and brakes. We go down more than a score or we don't have immediate and flashy success with our RB committee? Other than a couple of perfunctory hand-offs, Newton is going to be our running game for the day. He also will have to play as close to mistake free as you can hope for a young QB -- especially one asked to challenge the league lead for most yards/attempt.

How many games have we won with our "system" when our QB has even a single turnover again?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just to play devil's advocate here, lemme ask this question:

To the folks saying of Rivera that he can only win when it's meaningless and we're playing crappy teams, what's to stop people from applying that same disclaimer to Cam Newton? Ditto DeAngelo Williams. Or even Greg Hardy for that matter.

(and please try to respond with something more intelligent than 'haters gonna hate')

The reality is that the team as a whole, both players and coaches, is improving. And yes, in that context, an argument can indeed be made for not switching horses in midstream.

Like it or not, that's reality.

Here is a quote that sums up everything for me.

I love the Panthers. I wish they had played well early on. But, here's the truth. It happens in any sport. When the pressure is off everyone plays better. And then everyone also says, "see, this is really what we're capable of." Well, of course you are. But, the reason you didn't play like that the first part of the season is the pressure. You blew it. You dropped passes. Couldn't get first downs. Actually, Ron, you didn't go for it on 4th down on numerous occasions. Now, all of a sudden you're going for it. The reason: no pressure. What do you have to lose? The problem is you didn't play like that early enough. And in January. You'll be on your couch just like last year. Please do not use these final games Mr. Richardson as the measuring stick for who your future coach will be. It's easy to coach and make decisions when they don't matter.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm also not really sure the current system is worth keeping. Everything hinges on Newton. In many games we make him not only the engine, but also the wheels, transmission, wipers and brakes. We go down more than a score or we don't have immediate and flashy success with our RB committee? Other than a couple of perfunctory hand-offs, Newton is going to be our running game for the day. He also will have to play as close to mistake free as you can hope for a young QB -- especially one asked to challenge the league lead for most yards/attempt.

How many games have we won with our "system" when our QB has even a single turnover again?

This is why despite our defensive improvement I still call us a one man show. This team cant win if our QB has a so so to bad day. Everything is predicated on Cam posting 100 qb ratings just to win.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh and we know how smart those media guys are...by all means lets listen to them

True but we also know what he has done in two seasons.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If the players love Rivera so be it, this is the best possible reason to have Rivera and company on board for the next season.

Do not disrup the harmony !!!!

What harmony? We are one of the worst teams in the league... our players should be afraid for their jobs, not dictating what the front office does.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm also not really sure the current system is worth keeping. Everything hinges on Newton. In many games we make him not only the engine, but also the wheels, transmission, wipers and brakes. We go down more than a score or we don't have immediate and flashy success with our RB committee? Other than a couple of perfunctory hand-offs, Newton is going to be our running game for the day. He also will have to play as close to mistake free as you can hope for a young QB -- especially one asked to challenge the league lead for most yards/attempt.

How many games have we won with our "system" when our QB has even a single turnover again?

Exactly. The games we have won this year were from us scoring early and jumping to a substantial lead. Even then a few times we nearly let the opposing team come back to win in the fourth quarter. Then take a look at our losses and see the painfully obvious complete inability to close tight games at the end. When it comes down to the wire where coaching decisions win or lose the game, our staff gets out coached nearly every single time.

Let's give them another year though, surely this will not be a recurring problem next season.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It still matters how he finishes and how the GM feels about him. If they team can keep playing like this I will not be mad about his return.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites