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The reason Rivera shouldn't return.


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#31 TANTRIC-NINJA

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 11:05 AM

Let's be clear, here. This isn't Madden where you can just hit a reset button.

You bring in an entirely new coaching staff, you're starting over from scratch. Newton and the rest of the players have to learn a new offense, defense, etc. I know some will say "just hire a guy with a similar system" as if it were that simple. It isn't. The terminology is different. The approach is different. Everybody's starting from square one, which essentially means 2011 all over again.

Lots of coaches who eventually turned into perennial winners had rough starts, but nobody's got the patience to see the hard work through these days. If you're going to pull the plug just two years in, who's going to have time to see anything through?

People have 'lottery mentality' when it comes to coaches and players. "This one wasn't an instant success? Well, let's just get a new one". You complain about mediocrity, but how is the team ever supposed to get past mediocrity if nobody ever has the time to build anything. It's the same approach Jon Gruden had with QBs, and the same one the Raiders have been using to choose coaches.

You want to start over? Fine. But understand what it is you're advocating.


Well said and seems lost on the FIRE RIVERA mob.

A new regime is a new learning curve for Cam..for Smitty..and gang. Year 3 with Rivera is closer to righting the ship than "Hologram" Lombardi coaching..

Who wants to get a new coach and Cam experiences a Josh McDaniel scenario that Ben is experiencing in Pitt.. no thanks and THAT would cause a player to want to bolt

IF Rivera and gang doesn't work in year 3 then it is Logical and CONCLUSIVE to make a change

Also Rivera's year 1 was a weird one in itself and unique at that(lockout, Fox was a lame duck for 2 years prior basically, no Free agent adds bc of JR "captain" Lockout then extending everybody with a pulse..to max the cap space)

If the Oline can add some talent, another pass catching weapon, DT and a decent safety..not much lol..it is a full team that should have top 10 written all over it...NOW FOR THAT DAMN SPECIAL TEAMS!!

#32 Khaki Lackey

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 11:05 AM

Norv's players love him and Rivers lobbying for him kept him from getting canned last year. It didn't work out too well.

#33 Sloth

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 11:11 AM

You know what I'm afraid of? That we screw up this transition like we did the Fox->Rivera one. We should have gone with a clean slate then and truly built from scratch instead of trying to shoehorn a new coach into an existing, failed system. Hell, Hurney wasn't even that bad of a GM, it's just that what he and Fox had put together had soured so badly that we really needed to flush things out.

So we realize our mistake 1.5 years later and fire the GM so we have another chance to build something/implement a new system going forward. I really hope we don't make the same mistake and try to shoehorn a new GM into our current messed up, fractured, bipolar car wreck. Not to mention, as Fiz said, you can pretty much eliminate any candidate of substance by forcing Rivera onto him.

#34 SmokeScreen

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 11:11 AM

just bc rivera is winnign does not mean i want him back next year.

#35 Sloth

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 11:13 AM

Also, the rallying cry for keeping Rivera this season is awfully familiar to the one from last season.

#36 Bj-Monster23

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 11:16 AM

Let's be clear, here. This isn't Madden where you can just hit a reset button.

You bring in an entirely new coaching staff, you're starting over from scratch. Newton and the rest of the players have to learn a new offense, defense, etc. I know some will say "just hire a guy with a similar system" as if it were that simple. It isn't. The terminology is different. The approach is different. Everybody's starting from square one, which essentially means 2011 all over again.

Lots of coaches who eventually turned into perennial winners had rough starts, but nobody's got the patience to see the hard work through these days. If you're going to pull the plug just two years in, who's going to have time to see anything through?

People have 'lottery mentality' when it comes to coaches and players. "This one wasn't an instant success? Well, let's just get a new one". You complain about mediocrity, but how is the team ever supposed to get past mediocrity if nobody ever has the time to build anything. It's the same approach Jon Gruden had with QBs, and the same one the Raiders have been using to choose coaches.

You want to start over? Fine. But understand what it is you're advocating.


We know it's not Madden, but Rivera hasn't done anything that says we need to keep him. Putting him on a leash for next season which is what most of the posters on the board has suggested means nothing. If you have to put a coach on a short leash then it means they don't need to be here to begin with. No one never said it would be easy and yes coaches do have rough starts. It's not about that though, it's about how we loss the games in certain fashion. It's about what it took to get to this level which was the jobs of a couple people which includes the GM.

What happens next year if we start off 0-3 or 0-4? This board will go crazy and want Rivera fired. It would be another wasted season and more wasted time.

We made this mistake in 2010 when we let fox go and not let Marty go also. We can't make this mistake again. It will set us back even further. What are we losing if we start over? Nothing, due to the fact we haven't gained anything in the past two seasons to see to lose. I have seen enough.

#37 fieryprophet

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 11:20 AM

I don't know why everyone insists a new GM = new coach. The Giants changed GMs without changing coaches, as did the Eagles.

#38 Sloth

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 11:22 AM

We know it's not Madden, but Rivera hasn't done anything that says we need to keep him. Putting him on a leash for next season which is what most of the posters on the board has suggested means nothing. If you have to put a coach on a short leash then it means they don't need to be here to begin with. No one never said it would be easy and yes coaches do have rough starts. It's not about that though, it's about how we loss the games in certain fashion. It's about what it took to get to this level which was the jobs of a couple people which includes the GM.

What happens next year if we start off 0-3 or 0-4? This board will go crazy and want Rivera fired. It would be another wasted season and more wasted time.

We made this mistake in 2010 when we let fox go and not let Marty go also. We can't make this mistake again. It will set us back even further.


We can't really go into next season with Rivera on a short leash. Say he stumbles out of the block to a 0-3 or 1-4 record. Well, it sucks to be us, at least we can look forward to meaningless December games. We can't fire him for the same reasons we didn't drop him mid season this year - nobody to run a practice and all the HC candidates are currently employed.

I mean, true, Cam didn't have to learn a new system, but he'd have to the following year anyways. We just wasted another season getting there.

#39 jarhead

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 11:22 AM

We know it's not Madden, but Rivera hasn't done anything that says we need to keep him. Putting him on a leash for next season which is what most of the posters on the board has suggested means nothing. If you have to put a coach on a short leash then it means they don't need to be here to begin with. No one never said it would be easy and yes coaches do have rough starts. It's not about that though, it's about how we loss the games in certain fashion. It's about what it took to get to this level which was the jobs of a couple people which includes the GM.

What happens next year if we start off 0-3 or 0-4? This board will go crazy and want Rivera fired. It would be another wasted season and more wasted time.

We made this mistake in 2010 when we let fox go and not let Marty go also. We can't make this mistake again. It will set us back even further.



He has done some good things.Its not easy having a top ten defense when you had questionable talent to start coupled with multiple injuries.His biggest mistake was allowing Chud to use the read option as our base offense.Can you correct that yes.Lets focus on the things we cannot correct before hiring a new coach.We dont say get rid of Cam because he has had accuracy problems because they can be corrected.

#40 rodeo

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 11:28 AM

Keeping him as DC solves both problems.

#41 Bj-Monster23

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 11:28 AM

He has done some good things.Its not easy having a top ten defense when you had questionable talent to start coupled with multiple injuries.His biggest mistake was allowing Chud to use the read option as our base offense.Can you correct that yes.Lets focus on the things we cannot correct before hiring a new coach.


I'm not denying the fact that he improved the defense some what I gave him credit the past couple of weeks on the defensive front. But let's not act like our defense hasn't had any struggles. Remember Chicago, Tampa Bay, Giants, Denver, and not to mention we almost gave up 200 yds to a running back who hasn't started since high school which is Bryce Brown. If he didn't never fumble so many times we would have loss that game too but that's another story.

#42 Sloth

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 11:30 AM

He has done some good things.Its not easy having a top ten defense when you had questionable talent to start coupled with multiple injuries.His biggest mistake was allowing Chud to use the read option as our base offense.Can you correct that yes.Lets focus on the things we cannot correct before hiring a new coach.


It took the General Manager getting fired this season for him to do his job and adjust his scheme. You also can't talk about Chud as if he's this pesky rogue agent that's sabotaging Rivera at every turn. Ron approves the game plan on both sides of the ball. Ron approved the retarded switch of our offensive focus the past off season.

#43 jarhead

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 11:34 AM

It took the General Manager getting fired this season for him to do his job and adjust his scheme. You also can't talk about Chud as if he's this pesky rogue agent that's sabotaging Rivera at every turn. Ron approves the game plan on both sides of the ball. Ron approved our retarded switch of our offensive focus the past off season.



I said he was allowing Chud to run the offense .I agree he is the HC and its his call but that is something you can change.It the things we cannot change about Rivera that keep me up at night.

#44 rodeo

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 11:34 AM

Wasn't Hurney fired week 6? We didn't start adjusting and getting better til about week 10 or 11. Even then, we lost to the Chiefs.

#45 jarhead

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 11:37 AM

Wasn't Hurney fired week 6? We didn't start adjusting and getting better til about week 10 or 11. Even then, we lost to the Chiefs.



Yep and that is a big concern is how and why we lost that game..no doubt


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