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The reason Rivera shouldn't return.


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#25 Mr. Scot

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 10:49 AM

Let's be clear, here. This isn't Madden where you can just hit a reset button.

You bring in an entirely new coaching staff, you're starting over from scratch. Newton and the rest of the players have to learn a new offense, defense, etc. I know some will say "just hire a guy with a similar system" as if it were that simple. It isn't. The terminology is different. The approach is different. Everybody's starting from square one, which essentially means 2011 all over again.

Lots of coaches who eventually turned into perennial winners had rough starts, but nobody's got the patience to see the hard work through these days. If you're going to pull the plug just two years in, who's going to have time to see anything through?

People have 'lottery mentality' when it comes to coaches and players. "This one wasn't an instant success? Well, let's just get a new one". You complain about mediocrity, but how is the team ever supposed to get past mediocrity if nobody ever has the time to build anything. It's the same approach Jon Gruden had with QBs, and the same one the Raiders have been using to choose coaches.

You want to start over? Fine. But understand what it is you're advocating.

#26 KJ89

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 10:51 AM

Wait... What? How are completely blaming Chud for this. Ron is the HC and he has the power to change things on this team at any time. If Ron failed to step in and say ha Chud less change things up and do something different to get this team a change of pace to get things rolling. But did Ron do that way earlier in the season? No he didn't. Ron is the HC and his the one that should be blamed for not working more closely with his staff to change things when what your doing is not working in the first place. Yes blame Chud for some of the play calling and stuff. But blaming Chud for all this and not blaming Ron is dumb. Ron is in charge of the team and the coaching staff. He needed to step in and change something or work with his staff to do so. But Ron failed to do so. So Ron is mostly to blame for things not changing until late in the season that finally got this team going. Sorta!!


You're right.

I was saying more the play calling then Chud himself.. Rivera should have changed it yes.

The play calling actually has changed though, and you'd think Chud would be smart enough to continue what's working, and change what isn't, but I have little faith he will. So Chud needs to either step it up, or GTFO.

Something's gotta change, but I'm not sure if RR or Chud are even getting fired at all. So hopefully they change what needs to be changed, or bring in someone new. Cuz it's not working.

But yes, you're right. RR's at fault as much as Chud.. But Chud is the supposed offensive mind. If he can't change something, then I don't want him.

BUT I don't want someone new necessarily.


My biggest problem is firing these guys and bringing in someone who is just as bad, or worse.




I say keep Rivera for one more year. If that means keeping Chud, so be it.

I think the coaching is less of a problem at this point then some of you think. Like it's been said, the play execution has lost us plenty of games, where the coaching was helpless.

One more year. If they screw up that one, GTFO

#27 KJ89

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 10:52 AM

Ugh, I dont get you guys on here. When I was saying lose out for a draft pick all you guys said "Wowz, you are not true fan of the Panthorz!! Get the fug off this board" Then when we win you guys are like "noooo, Rivera must not return, these wins are meaningless and mean nothing!"


How are either of those two things relevant.

#28 carolina-chuck

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 10:53 AM

That says it all. Even reporters know that the guy shouldn't be brought back.

#29 KJ89

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 10:56 AM

Let's be clear, here. This isn't Madden where you can just hit a reset button.

You bring in an entirely new coaching staff, you're starting over from scratch. Newton and the rest of the players have to learn a new offense, defense, etc. I know some will say "just hire a guy with a similar system" as if it were that simple. It isn't. The terminology is different. The approach is different. Everybody's starting from square one, which essentially means 2011 all over again.

Lots of coaches who eventually turned into perennial winners had rough starts, but nobody's got the patience to see the hard work through these days. If you're going to pull the plug just two years in, who's going to have time to see anything through?

People have 'lottery mentality' when it comes to coaches and players. "This one wasn't an instant success? Well, let's just get a new one". You complain about mediocrity, but how is the team ever supposed to get past mediocrity if nobody ever has the time to build anything. It's the same approach Jon Gruden had with QBs, and the same one the Raiders have been using to choose coaches.

You want to start over? Fine. But understand what it is you're advocating.


Agreed.

#30 jarhead

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 10:58 AM

That said it all. Even reporters know that the guy shouldn't be brought back.



Oh and we know how smart those media guys are...by all means lets listen to them

#31 TANTRIC-NINJA

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 11:05 AM

Let's be clear, here. This isn't Madden where you can just hit a reset button.

You bring in an entirely new coaching staff, you're starting over from scratch. Newton and the rest of the players have to learn a new offense, defense, etc. I know some will say "just hire a guy with a similar system" as if it were that simple. It isn't. The terminology is different. The approach is different. Everybody's starting from square one, which essentially means 2011 all over again.

Lots of coaches who eventually turned into perennial winners had rough starts, but nobody's got the patience to see the hard work through these days. If you're going to pull the plug just two years in, who's going to have time to see anything through?

People have 'lottery mentality' when it comes to coaches and players. "This one wasn't an instant success? Well, let's just get a new one". You complain about mediocrity, but how is the team ever supposed to get past mediocrity if nobody ever has the time to build anything. It's the same approach Jon Gruden had with QBs, and the same one the Raiders have been using to choose coaches.

You want to start over? Fine. But understand what it is you're advocating.


Well said and seems lost on the FIRE RIVERA mob.

A new regime is a new learning curve for Cam..for Smitty..and gang. Year 3 with Rivera is closer to righting the ship than "Hologram" Lombardi coaching..

Who wants to get a new coach and Cam experiences a Josh McDaniel scenario that Ben is experiencing in Pitt.. no thanks and THAT would cause a player to want to bolt

IF Rivera and gang doesn't work in year 3 then it is Logical and CONCLUSIVE to make a change

Also Rivera's year 1 was a weird one in itself and unique at that(lockout, Fox was a lame duck for 2 years prior basically, no Free agent adds bc of JR "captain" Lockout then extending everybody with a pulse..to max the cap space)

If the Oline can add some talent, another pass catching weapon, DT and a decent safety..not much lol..it is a full team that should have top 10 written all over it...NOW FOR THAT DAMN SPECIAL TEAMS!!

#32 Khaki Lackey

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 11:05 AM

Norv's players love him and Rivers lobbying for him kept him from getting canned last year. It didn't work out too well.

#33 Sloth

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 11:11 AM

You know what I'm afraid of? That we screw up this transition like we did the Fox->Rivera one. We should have gone with a clean slate then and truly built from scratch instead of trying to shoehorn a new coach into an existing, failed system. Hell, Hurney wasn't even that bad of a GM, it's just that what he and Fox had put together had soured so badly that we really needed to flush things out.

So we realize our mistake 1.5 years later and fire the GM so we have another chance to build something/implement a new system going forward. I really hope we don't make the same mistake and try to shoehorn a new GM into our current messed up, fractured, bipolar car wreck. Not to mention, as Fiz said, you can pretty much eliminate any candidate of substance by forcing Rivera onto him.

#34 SmokeScreen

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 11:11 AM

just bc rivera is winnign does not mean i want him back next year.

#35 Sloth

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 11:13 AM

Also, the rallying cry for keeping Rivera this season is awfully familiar to the one from last season.

#36 Bj-Monster23

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 11:16 AM

Let's be clear, here. This isn't Madden where you can just hit a reset button.

You bring in an entirely new coaching staff, you're starting over from scratch. Newton and the rest of the players have to learn a new offense, defense, etc. I know some will say "just hire a guy with a similar system" as if it were that simple. It isn't. The terminology is different. The approach is different. Everybody's starting from square one, which essentially means 2011 all over again.

Lots of coaches who eventually turned into perennial winners had rough starts, but nobody's got the patience to see the hard work through these days. If you're going to pull the plug just two years in, who's going to have time to see anything through?

People have 'lottery mentality' when it comes to coaches and players. "This one wasn't an instant success? Well, let's just get a new one". You complain about mediocrity, but how is the team ever supposed to get past mediocrity if nobody ever has the time to build anything. It's the same approach Jon Gruden had with QBs, and the same one the Raiders have been using to choose coaches.

You want to start over? Fine. But understand what it is you're advocating.


We know it's not Madden, but Rivera hasn't done anything that says we need to keep him. Putting him on a leash for next season which is what most of the posters on the board has suggested means nothing. If you have to put a coach on a short leash then it means they don't need to be here to begin with. No one never said it would be easy and yes coaches do have rough starts. It's not about that though, it's about how we loss the games in certain fashion. It's about what it took to get to this level which was the jobs of a couple people which includes the GM.

What happens next year if we start off 0-3 or 0-4? This board will go crazy and want Rivera fired. It would be another wasted season and more wasted time.

We made this mistake in 2010 when we let fox go and not let Marty go also. We can't make this mistake again. It will set us back even further. What are we losing if we start over? Nothing, due to the fact we haven't gained anything in the past two seasons to see to lose. I have seen enough.