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The reason Rivera shouldn't return.


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#46 TANTRIC-NINJA

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 11:37 AM

It took the General Manager getting fired this season for him to do his job and adjust his scheme. You also can't talk about Chud as if he's this pesky rogue agent that's sabotaging Rivera at every turn. Ron approves the game plan on both sides of the ball. Ron approved our retarded switch of our offensive focus the past off season.


Ron approved the read option bc it worked like 1000% of the time last season it seemed...we all thought it was the bees knees too...

we see as Rivera saw that it can be rendered ineffective as a base offense. He has since adjusted and now the scoring and consistency has increased as well.

How many sad threads would have been made if Chud got hired elsewhere?

Year 3 should decide if the Mayans allow it.

#47 Toundra

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 11:38 AM

If the players love Rivera so be it, this is the best possible reason to have Rivera and company on board for the next season.
Do not disrup the harmony !!!!

#48 Sloth

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 11:40 AM

If the players love Rivera so be it, this is the best possible reason to have Rivera and company on board for the next season.
Do not disrup the harmony !!!!


Re-hire Hurney!

#49 KJ89

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 11:42 AM

Yeah, the players know where the problem's are, and they want to keep rivera. They like him. Keep him. He needs another year.

#50 Who Said What?

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 11:48 AM

The small things though like Naka playing the whole season kills me. In Baltimore they say he was Reed's back-up, but he never got on the field consistently. They played other guys when Reed was hurt. Campbell has been great at safety and Martin played well at times. But we still had to see that chump come on the field like we had zero other options until he got hurt. There is a good chance he will be starting next year if Rivera stays. I cannot deal with that kind of ineptitude.

#51 Mr. Scot

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 11:52 AM

Just to play devil's advocate here, lemme ask this question:

To the folks saying of Rivera that he can only win when it's meaningless and we're playing crappy teams, what's to stop people from applying that same disclaimer to Cam Newton? Ditto DeAngelo Williams. Or even Greg Hardy for that matter.

(and please try to respond with something more intelligent than 'haters gonna hate')

The reality is that the team as a whole, both players and coaches, is improving. And yes, in that context, an argument can indeed be made for not switching horses in midstream.

Like it or not, that's reality.

#52 mwright350

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 12:01 PM

Just to play devil's advocate here, lemme ask this question:

To the folks saying of Rivera that he can only win when it's meaningless and we're playing crappy teams, what's to stop people from applying that same disclaimer to Cam Newton? Ditto DeAngelo Williams. Or even Greg Hardy for that matter.

(and please try to respond with something more intelligent than 'haters gonna hate')

The reality is that the team as a whole, both players and coaches, is improving. And yes, in that context, an argument can indeed be made for not switching horses in midstream.

Like it or not, that's reality.


I've thought that myself - my justification to myself for applying that stamp to Rivera and our coaches, but not the players, is that I believe the responsibility for our early season losses lies more on the coaches than the players.

Early on this year every single aspect of our team had badly regressed, we were stubbornly running a silly offense scheme based around the read-option more than anything else, and our head coach admitted more than once that we just weren't prepared schematically. Not to mention that our QB got worse mechanically after spending an offseason with our coaches after making huge strides working with Weinke during the lockout.

The players had their moments where they could have won in spite of the poor coaching, and they certainly have their share of the blame, but I don't see enough blame going to them to earn that label just yet.

*edit*

I do realize that the scheme is different and the team is improving in all aspects - but we did the same thing last year then went backwards this year after a stronger finish than beginning.

I don't know what's in the coach's heads but I don't think it's a coincidence that our entire philosophy seems to be different when there's nothing to lose than when we aren't eliminated from postseason play entirely.

#53 Bj-Monster23

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 12:26 PM

I've thought that myself - my justification to myself for applying that stamp to Rivera and our coaches, but not the players, is that I believe the responsibility for our early season losses lies more on the coaches than the players.

Early on this year every single aspect of our team had badly regressed, we were stubbornly running a silly offense scheme based around the read-option more than anything else, and our head coach admitted more than once that we just weren't prepared schematically. Not to mention that our QB got worse mechanically after spending an offseason with our coaches after making huge strides working with Weinke during the lockout.

The players had their moments where they could have won in spite of the poor coaching, and they certainly have their share of the blame, but I don't see enough blame going to them to earn that label just yet.

*edit*

I do realize that the scheme is different and the team is improving in all aspects - but we did the same thing last year then went backwards this year after a stronger finish than beginning.

I don't know what's in the coach's heads but I don't think it's a coincidence that our entire philosophy seems to be different when there's nothing to lose than when we aren't eliminated from postseason play entirely.


I can understand if we are in the Eagles situation. Their players deserve a lot of the blame. I don't see our situation like that. That's why I believe the blame in this case goes mostly to the coaches.

#54 Sloth

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 12:41 PM

I'm also not really sure the current system is worth keeping. Everything hinges on Newton. In many games we make him not only the engine, but also the wheels, transmission, wipers and brakes. We go down more than a score or we don't have immediate and flashy success with our RB committee? Other than a couple of perfunctory hand-offs, Newton is going to be our running game for the day. He also will have to play as close to mistake free as you can hope for a young QB -- especially one asked to challenge the league lead for most yards/attempt.

How many games have we won with our "system" when our QB has even a single turnover again?

#55 Bj-Monster23

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 12:45 PM

Just to play devil's advocate here, lemme ask this question:

To the folks saying of Rivera that he can only win when it's meaningless and we're playing crappy teams, what's to stop people from applying that same disclaimer to Cam Newton? Ditto DeAngelo Williams. Or even Greg Hardy for that matter.

(and please try to respond with something more intelligent than 'haters gonna hate')

The reality is that the team as a whole, both players and coaches, is improving. And yes, in that context, an argument can indeed be made for not switching horses in midstream.

Like it or not, that's reality.


Here is a quote that sums up everything for me.

I love the Panthers. I wish they had played well early on. But, here's the truth. It happens in any sport. When the pressure is off everyone plays better. And then everyone also says, "see, this is really what we're capable of." Well, of course you are. But, the reason you didn't play like that the first part of the season is the pressure. You blew it. You dropped passes. Couldn't get first downs. Actually, Ron, you didn't go for it on 4th down on numerous occasions. Now, all of a sudden you're going for it. The reason: no pressure. What do you have to lose? The problem is you didn't play like that early enough. And in January. You'll be on your couch just like last year. Please do not use these final games Mr. Richardson as the measuring stick for who your future coach will be. It's easy to coach and make decisions when they don't matter.

#56 King Taharqa

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 01:26 PM

I'm also not really sure the current system is worth keeping. Everything hinges on Newton. In many games we make him not only the engine, but also the wheels, transmission, wipers and brakes. We go down more than a score or we don't have immediate and flashy success with our RB committee? Other than a couple of perfunctory hand-offs, Newton is going to be our running game for the day. He also will have to play as close to mistake free as you can hope for a young QB -- especially one asked to challenge the league lead for most yards/attempt.

How many games have we won with our "system" when our QB has even a single turnover again?


This is why despite our defensive improvement I still call us a one man show. This team cant win if our QB has a so so to bad day. Everything is predicated on Cam posting 100 qb ratings just to win.

#57 carolina-chuck

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 01:50 PM

Oh and we know how smart those media guys are...by all means lets listen to them


True but we also know what he has done in two seasons.

#58 Keith Moons Liver

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 02:08 PM

If the players love Rivera so be it, this is the best possible reason to have Rivera and company on board for the next season.
Do not disrup the harmony !!!!

What harmony? We are one of the worst teams in the league... our players should be afraid for their jobs, not dictating what the front office does.

#59 TheRed

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 02:34 PM

I'm also not really sure the current system is worth keeping. Everything hinges on Newton. In many games we make him not only the engine, but also the wheels, transmission, wipers and brakes. We go down more than a score or we don't have immediate and flashy success with our RB committee? Other than a couple of perfunctory hand-offs, Newton is going to be our running game for the day. He also will have to play as close to mistake free as you can hope for a young QB -- especially one asked to challenge the league lead for most yards/attempt.

How many games have we won with our "system" when our QB has even a single turnover again?


Exactly. The games we have won this year were from us scoring early and jumping to a substantial lead. Even then a few times we nearly let the opposing team come back to win in the fourth quarter. Then take a look at our losses and see the painfully obvious complete inability to close tight games at the end. When it comes down to the wire where coaching decisions win or lose the game, our staff gets out coached nearly every single time.

Let's give them another year though, surely this will not be a recurring problem next season.

#60 Snake

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 03:18 PM

It still matters how he finishes and how the GM feels about him. If they team can keep playing like this I will not be mad about his return.


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