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Awesomeness!!

Arm Everybody.

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Well, I suppose anything is possible, but these guys are going to malls, churches, movie theaters and schools. Not many walking into a police dept and starting their crap.

Why would they go into a police department? They want to kill innocent people it seems, or some have targets, triggers, etc, that a police department is totally unrelated to (e.g., the temple shooting in Wisconsin).

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Why would they go into a police department? They want to kill innocent people it seems, or some have targets, triggers, etc, that a police department is totally unrelated to (e.g., the temple shooting in Wisconsin).

Police are also innocent. But, they shoot back.

Everyone would be innocents, unless they decide to go and shoot up prisons

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Police are also innocent. But, they shoot back.

Everyone would be innocents, unless they decide to go and shoot up prisons

There's a difference between the "innocence" that police officers have and that of other citizens, particularly kids, in many people's eyes.

Either way, arming everyone wouldn't stop the attacks that are targeted but driven by insanity...

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I don't necessarily believe in arming everyone, just a counterpoint to some of the arguments.

A deterrent is definitely what it would be if the loonies thought they would take a bullet within the first moments of entering a location. I am just saying they go to places that are "easy pickings" so to speak.

Not a quick answer solution is the main point. Huddle thinks they can solve it by quick knee jerk responses and that is just not the case.

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What did the "Wild West" think about the idea of everyone being armed?

Guns were an equalizer in the West and required when there was little order and little visible presence of the law given the size of the territories that had to be covered and the lack of officers to handle it. Throw in the fact that in many counties and municipalities lawmen were in the pockets of the rich and powerful who owned land—and lots of it—and you’ve got some very good reasons why men walked around “well heeled.” The Johnson County War (Wyoming) and the Lincoln County War (New Mexico) are just two examples of violence spurred by lawmen that were the arm of a faction that wanted to retain power at any price.

So it is somewhat surprising to realize that many counties and towns in the West during the late 1800’s had stiffer gun control laws then they do in the modern era. But as western towns attracted more families, business men, and industries, the townspeople could no longer tolerate the “wild cowboys” that were part of area ranch and cattle drives. These were generally young men in their twenties, liquored up, testosterone driven, and with the judgment of a cow on loco weed.

Fort Worth, Texas, had its share of vice in the form of gambling, drinking, and loose women in an area known as Hell’s Half-Acre. Prostitution and gambling attracted such notable characters as Wyatt, James and Virgil Earp, Billy Thompson, Timothy Courtright (who served as sheriff in between bouts of criminality), Luke Short (gambling proprietor), Charlie Wright and other high profile gamblers and gunslingers. By 1887, after three notorious killings, including that of Timothy Courtright by Luke Short, the citizens of Fort Worth voted in reformers as mayor and sheriff, and thus began the “cleaning up” of Fort Worth. Gambling was now to take place in private rooms, saloons were to close on Sundays, and there would be a ban on carrying guns in the city. Even the police officers were to replace their pistols with clubs or nightsticks. Needless to say, the reformers got their share of flack from the “business” interests of the town, but, by the turn of the century, all these reforms were being enforced.

Dodge City, Kansas was a “wide-open” town in the 1870s and 1880s and earned its reputation as a Sodom of the plains. Some of the most famous gunfighters in America’s history were officers of the law in Dodge including Wyatt Earp, Morgan Earp, Bat Masterson, and Edward Masterson. The “peace officers” of Dodge often had gambling and saloon interests and mingled with or counted as friends the likes of Ben Thompson, Bill Tilghman, and, our Fort Worth friend, Luke Short, among other infamous characters. As early as 1876, Dodge City had a ban on carrying guns on the north side of town (the south side remained wide open), a ban that was rarely enforced. However, by 1883 the death toll from gun play had risen sufficiently for the town fathers to enact a stricter ban. Ordinance No. 67 enacted August 14th 1882 specified that no one could “carry concealed or otherwise about his or her person, any pistol, bowie knife, slung shot or other dangerous or deadly weapons, except County, City, or United Sates Officers” and raised the fine from twenty-five dollars to one hundred dollars, no small amount in 1882. The Dodge City Times declared: “There is a disposition to do away with the carrying of firearms, and we hope the feeling will become general. The carrying of firearms is a barbarous custom, and it’s time the practice was broken up.”

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Today’s anti gun control forces count their strongest support among society’s leaders from the states that once formed part of the Old West.

The actual Old West pioneers of historical fact viewed matters differently, however. They would certainly hail the campaign to protect an American right to bear arms, but the record puts them behind "moderate, common-sense measures" for gun control—the very kind that President Clinton has proposed.

Pioneer publications show Old West leaders repeatedly arguing in favor of gun control. City leaders in the old cattle towns knew from experience what some Americans today don't want to believe: a town which allows easy access to guns invites trouble.

What these cow town leaders saw intimately in their day-to-day association with guns is that more guns in more places caused not greater safety, but greater death in an already dangerous wilderness. By the 1880s many in the west were fed up with gun violence. Gun control, they contended, was absolutely essential, and the remedy advocated usually was usually no less than a total ban on pistol-packing.

The editor of the Black Hills Daily Times of Dakota Territory in 1884, called the idea of carrying firearms into the city a “dangerous practice,” not only to others, but to the packer himself. He emphasized his point with the headline, "Perforated by His Own Pistol."

The editor of the Montana’s Yellowstone Journal acknowledged four years earlier that Americans have "the right to bear arms," but he contended that guns have to be regulated. As for cowboys carrying pistols, a dispatch from Laramie’s Northwest Stock Journal in 1884, reported, "We see many cowboys fitting up for the spring and summer work. They all seem to think it absolutely necessary to have a revolver. Of all foolish notions this is the most absurd."

Cowboy president Theodore Roosevelt recalled with approval that as a Dakota Territory ranch owner, his town, at the least, allowed "no shooting in the streets." The editor of that town's newspaper, The Bad Lands Cow Boy of Medora, demanded that gun control be even tighter than that, however. Like leaders in Miles City and many other cow towns, he wanted to see guns banned entirely within the city limits. A.T. Packard in August 1885 called "packing a gun" a "senseless custom," and noted about a month later that "As a protection, it is terribly useless.”

Old West cattlemen themselves also saw the need for gun control. By 1882, a Texas cattle raising association had banned six-shooters from the cowboy's belt. "In almost every section of the West murders are on the increase, and cowmen are too often the principals in the encounters," concurred a dispatch from the Texas Live Stock Journal dated June 5, 1884. "The six-shooter loaded with deadly cartridges is a dangerous companion for any man, especially if he should unfortunately be primed with whiskey. Cattlemen should unite in aiding the enforcement of the law against carrying of deadly weapons."

http://www.ndsu.edu/pubweb/~rcollins/scholarship/guns.html

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It's all part of the lore of the Wild West: men armed to the teeth ready to shoot it out with one another on Main Street at a moment's notice. And it's an image, bolstered by Hollywood, that gun-lovers and the NRA are only too happy to cultivate, as they look to our romanticized view of the past to justify having virtually no gun-control laws today. But is that the way it really was in the Old West?

Not according to Katherine Benton-Cohen, history professor at Georgetown University.

In an article she posted in Politico immediately after the Gabrielle Giffords' shooting in Tucson in January, 2011, she argues that many people have the lesson of Tombstone all wrong, that Tombstone was NOT a place of carefree gun usage and wild shootouts (except for the obvious one):

http://www.politico.com/...

The irony ... is that Tombstone lawmakers in the 1880s did more to combat gun violence than the Arizona government does today.

For all the talk of the “Wild West,” the policymakers of 1880 Tombstone—and many other Western towns—were ardent supporters of gun control. When people now compare things to the “shootout at the OK Corral,” they mean vigilante violence by gunfire. But this is exactly what the Tombstone town council had been trying to avoid.

In late 1880, as regional violence ratcheted up, Tombstone strengthened its existing ban on concealed weapons to outlaw the carrying of any deadly weapons within the town limits. The Earps (who were Republicans) and Doc Holliday maintained that they were acting as law officers—not citizen vigilantes—when they shot their opponents. That is to say, they were sworn officers whose jobs included enforcement of Tombstone’s gun laws.

Just know that, when gun advocates try to pull the old Wild West card on you, they have no idea what it is they're talking about.

http://www.dailykos....r-then-than-now#

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Although some in the gun community insist that more guns equals less crime, in the Wild West they discovered that gun control can work. Gun violence in these towns was far more rare than we commonly imagine. Historians who've studied the numbers have determined that frontier towns averaged less than two murders a year. Granted, the population of these towns was small. Nevertheless, these were not places where duels at high noon were commonplace. In fact, they almost never occurred.

Why is our image of the Wild West so wrong? Largely for the same reason these towns adopted gun control laws in the first place: economic development. Residents wanted limits on guns in public because they wanted to attract businesspeople and civilized folk. What prospective storeowner was going to move to Deadwood if he was likely to be robbed when he brought his daily earnings to the bank?

Once the frontier was closed, those same towns glorified a supposedly violent past in order to attract tourists and the businesses to serve them. Gunfights were extremely rare in frontier towns, but these days you can see a reenactment of the one at the OK Corral several times a day. Don't forget to buy a souvenir!

The story of guns in America is far more complex and surprising than we've often been led to believe. We've always had a right to bear arms, but we've also always had gun control. Even in the Wild West, Americans balanced these two and enacted laws restricting guns in order to promote public safety. Why should it be so hard to do the same today?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/adam-winkler/did-the-wild-west-have-mo_b_956035.html

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tazer.jpg

would have ended the shooting.

I'm sorry but why would I want to do that when I could instead PUT A BULLET IN HIS HEAD AND fug THE HOLE IT LEAVES.

Uh I mean defend myself.

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