78 replies to this topic

[Darth Biscuit]

I don't identify myself as an NRA member in fear of the "evil police state", and yet some of these very individuals including the very head of the NRA are advocating police state expansion. Hypocrites.

I don't count myself as a member of the GOP/TP, nor did I vote for any Republican Congressmen, because virtually all of them have signed Grover Norquist's, "No new taxes pledge". Yet now to avoid viable solutions to rampant firearms deaths in our society some of those very same people are advocating an expansion of government? What happened to wanting to reduce the size of "Big Government" until it is small enough to drowned in a bathtub? Hypocrites.

The fact that there were armed police officers at Columbine and Virginia Tech didn't prevent the historic loss of life and carnage. So expansion of the Police state is likely not going to do what the NRA claims it will.

On the other hand, the 59% reduction in firearm deaths and the total elimination of mass killings since 1996 in Australia, speak for themselves.

No hypocrisy on my part. We are still looking for viable solutions here, aren't we?

I think you missed the point of both my posts here.

I was specifically talking about Delhommey saying that cops in schools was increasing budgets but ignoring that a mandatory gun buyback would too.

[NanuqoftheNorth]

Love the budget hawk liberals that are showing up.

They clearly love the millions and billions wasted on liberal projects like Solyndra, Obama phones, disability fraud, etc., more than they do the children. They do not want to protect our kids!!! Just give tons of money to groups who funnel back to them in elections. Money for everything in the world, but not for the kids. I suppose paying people to sit on their azz and draw gov $$$ for doing nothing, is better than paying them to sit in schools and protect the kids?

Page from their playbook

You really never seem to get tired of being on the wrong side of an issue, do you?

Government is famous for supporting private industry in research and development. Not surprisingly, when it comes to new technology it doesn't always work out. No guarantees in life, shocking, I know!!! This may sound unbelievable, but I did some research and it even happens in private industry too!

Talk to the American Astronauts as to why it was worth continuing after the adversity of Apollo 1. The fact that we are even having this conversation confirms government investment in new technologies benefits all of us, neocons and liberals alike.

"Obama phones" was not even created by his administration. It had it's origins way back in the Reagan administration.

Fraud happens everywhere. Shockingly, even in the private sector. That's why we need better regulation. Check out the history of Wall Street, Big Pharma, Big Oil, Industrial Farming or the Military Industrial Complex. For that matter check out gun manufactures. Those guys count on the NRA to fight any and all attempts to eliminate sales loopholes that allow their products to be purchased by criminals or gun safety regulations that would prevent gun owner's sons from blowing away 20 children and 8 adults.

Why would you even make absurd statements like "Money for everything in the world, but not for the kids"? Who here doesn't want to make our nation a safer place for our children? I suspect even you want to protect America's children, despite your often misguided support of the NRA's tragically flawed gun policies.

[stirs]

Panties in a wad there NN?

Tongue in cheek as evidenced by the "page from their playbook" comment. This is typically how liberals talk by saying "war on women" and such. Just using outlandish to expose outlandish.

[NanuqoftheNorth]

I think you missed the point of both my posts here.

Yes, I likely did.

I was specifically talking about Delhommey saying that cops in schools was increasing budgets but ignoring that a mandatory gun buyback would too.

Agreed. Both would cost a considerable amount of tax payer dollars.

But having said that, a gun buy back program has been shown to work quite well in conjunction with other measures, albeit in Australia.

The other method, police in schools, by itself, has been shown not to work, at Columbine and Virginia Tech.

Either or both these suggestions might work in conjuction with other changes.

I honestly don't think there is any "stand alone" solution to the problem. Any proposal without 100% background checks for all gun sales, new and used, along with owner liability for improperly secured weapons later used in crimes, will be nothing more than window dressing on the problem.

The vast majority of firearm owners are responsible citizens and care deeply about gun safety. This conversation is not about them.

[Darth Biscuit]

Yeah, I wasn't debating the merits of either, I was simply pointing out Dels continued ability to only see one side of the issue.

No one solution is going to magically fix anything.

[NanuqoftheNorth]

Panties in a wad there NN?

Tongue in cheek as evidenced by the "page from their playbook" comment. This is typically how liberals talk by saying "war on women" and such. Just using outlandish to expose outlandish.

Outlandish? I am not sure your know the meaning of the word.

Outlandish are individuals that support the continued sale of firearms to people without proper background checks.

Outlandish is an NRA President that a week ago learned of an individual that took unsecured weapons/ammo from his mother and gunned down 28 people, including twenty 6 and 7 year olds, yet makes no mention of the need for stricter control of firearms in the home.

That is the definition of outlandish.

[teeray]

Good. It isn't NY's governor's fault that these guys misintrepet the 2nd amendment.

Well regulated militia. Gun owners are no longer well regulated.

[NanuqoftheNorth]

Good. It isn't NY's governor's fault that these guys misinterpret the 2nd amendment.

Well regulated militia. Gun owners are no longer well regulated.

The second amendment is an anachronism.

As our urban centers continue to grow, it doesn't take a crystal ball to foretell the future of the second amendment.

The current USSC interpretation is likely as favorable as supporters will ever experience.

[Delhommey]

Yeah, I wasn't debating the merits of either, I was simply pointing out Dels continued ability to only see one side of the issue.

No one solution is going to magically fix anything.

You pretty much skipped over the multiple times I said I'm not against the idea posting cops in schools in order to jump to this conclusion. Not to mention I've never really advocated a buyback program either.

My point was for the conservative crowd, government intervention and spending is bad until it's something they like.

[gospodin shuttlesworth]

You pretty much skipped over the multiple times I said I'm not against the idea posting cops in schools in order to jump to this conclusion. Not to mention I've never really advocated a buyback program either.

My point was for the conservative crowd, government intervention and spending is bad until it's something they like.

but if he can't ignore relevant parts of your post, how can he be the "both sides are wrong the truth is in the middle" mr scot clone that american political discourse so desperately needs?

[AR-15 Panther]

I love people that not only freely want to give up their own rights, but so desperately want to steal mine as well.

Shall you support the removal of the 1st as easily as they have brainwashed you to give up the 2nd?

Where is violent crime the highest in this nation? The places where law abiding citizens have been disarmed....

[Delhommey]

These threads are like a zombie movie but with gun nut blowhards replacing the undead.

[AR-15 Panther]

Europe is always looking for more un armed subjects, if you don't mind the higher violent crime it may be a nice place for you.

[mav1234]

Good. It isn't NY's governor's fault that these guys misintrepet the 2nd amendment.

Well regulated militia. Gun owners are no longer well regulated.

I do think the 2nd amendment was intentionally worded to allow citizens to own firearms in order to protect themselves. I think that because militias of the past have become the national guard, some people are misunderstanding what militias were like in that day.

Interesting to note what could have been meant by the word regulated. It can be interrupted as controlled, but it could also be interrupted as something along the lines of conforming to expectations; that is to say, a militia without weapons is not exactly an effective militia. On the other hand, an unregulated militia that is uncontrolled is also dangerous. Ehh.

Honestly, the Founding Fathers did not consider the level of change in weaponry, nor the depths of mental insanity, when the 2nd amendment was written, I suspect. Just my opinion though.

Shall you support the removal of the 1st as easily as they have brainwashed you to give up the 2nd?

Brainwashed? uhm, what? Try objective thinking. Just because we disagree doesn't mean one of us was brainwashed.

I don't to ban all guns, but I do want stricter regulations, I do want a ban on assault rifles, and I would like more accountability for the use of firearms in violent crimes.

[mav1234]

Europe is always looking for more un armed subjects, if you don't mind the higher violent crime it may be a nice place for you.

Per capita rates are higher in many European countries likely due to the higher population density in many of those countries - if you look at statistics from European vs American cities you see a bit of a different story in many cases, whereas the national levels tend to suggest a more violent Europe. Exactly which is true depends more than a little bit on perspective. I'd be willing to bet most of the populated regions of the US have more violent crime than most of the populated regions of Europe, but I could be wrong.