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It was nice knowing you DeAngelo


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#76 Marguide

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 12:28 AM

Looks like gamble and gross will take about 16 million off the cap if they are both cut or traded. Im not sure exactly how it works, but id assume we'd just be responsible for bonuses


Unless Gross has guarantees that are not listed, cutting him would save us over $10 million. The only unallocated bonus he has left is $1 million.

Gamble's details aren't listed on the site I use because he's on IR, but just going off memory, cutting him should also provide $8 to $10 million in savings. The 2 of them together were due to count approximately $23 million against our cap in 2013 and both have aged contracts so there are big savings to be had if we choose to go that way.

#77 carpanfan96

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 12:36 AM

Just looked at it, and I'm not so sure that's correct.

He "only" has $7.2 million left in unallocated signing bonus. However, his contract has guarantees that total $23 million, and he has been paid a little under $10 million so far (signing bonus of $9 million and salary for 2012 of just under $1 million). So some of those amounts listed as "misc bonus" or some of his salaries are fully guaranteed. It is probably some combination of those. Nonetheless, it's going to be very hard to wiggle around his contract without it killing us.



9 Million of it is an option bonus that's due in 2014 and another 6 million of it only kick in if he reaches 1400 rushing yards and 1600 Yards from scrimmage. The actual cap hit before those two bonuses kick in is only 1.8 a season. That's why I was asking about his option bonus language, because if it's set up correctly the team can cut him and it not count towards his cap hit.

#78 Marguide

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 12:47 AM

9 Million of it is an option bonus that's due in 2014 and another 6 million of it only kick in if he reaches 1400 rushing yards and 1600 Yards from scrimmage. The actual cap hit before those two bonuses kick in is only 1.8 a season. That's why I was asking about his option bonus language, because if it's set up correctly the team can cut him and it not count towards his cap hit.


Not if it's guaranteed. There is no getting around guaranteed money.

Edit: And just to add to that, of the $23 million guaranteed, only $1.8 million (signing bonus allocation) + $811,000 (2012 salary; approx off memory) has hit the cap. That means we still have over $20 million dollars of his contract yet to hit the cap. That's much uglier than DWill's.

#79 R0CKnR0LLA

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 12:57 AM

you guys are jerks

#80 carpanfan96

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 12:59 AM

Not if it's guaranteed. There is no getting around guaranteed money.

Edit: And just to add to that, of the $23 million guaranteed, only $1.8 million (signing bonus allocation) + $811,000 (2012 salary; approx off memory) has hit the cap. That means we still have over $20 million dollars of his contract yet to hit the cap. That's much uglier than DWill's.



That completely depends on if it's fully guaranteed and there's no buy back clauses or anything else wrote into the deal. If there are injury terms and buy back clauses in the deal they would only have to pay him a portion of his option bonus and none of the incentive bonuses. It's all on how the deal is worded.

#81 Marguide

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 01:08 AM

That completely depends on if it's fully guaranteed and there's no buy back clauses or anything else wrote into the deal. If there are injury terms and buy back clauses in the deal they would only have to pay him a portion of his option bonus and none of the incentive bonuses. It's all on how the deal is worded.


That is true. My understanding was that it's fully guaranteed, but without seeing the deal it's hard to know for sure. It would be hard for me to believe that Stew signed a contract in which only $9 million (his signing bonus) was fully guaranteed, given what DWill received.

#82 R0CKnR0LLA

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 01:13 AM

hi everyone have a nice night

#83 carpanfan96

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 01:13 AM

That is true. My understanding was that it's fully guaranteed, but without seeing the deal it's hard to know for sure. It would be hard for me to believe that Stew signed a contract in which only $9 million (his signing bonus) was fully guaranteed, given what DWill received.



Well if the team cuts him before the Option bonus, it would get escalated into the total. However the amount added would be based on the buy back clause in the contract. If there isn't one in there, then it would be the full amount of 9 million which would double the cap hit on the spot. I'm not 100% on the incentive bonuses as they really should be included along with the 1.8 in his cap hit as they would be LTBE incentives.

#84 R0CKnR0LLA

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 01:15 AM

Well if the team cuts him before the Option bonus, it would get escalated into the total. However the amount added would be based on the buy back clause in the contract. If there isn't one in there, then it would be the full amount of 9 million which would double the cap hit on the spot. I'm not 100% on the incentive bonuses as they really should be included along with the 1.8 in his cap hit as they would be LTBE incentives.


everything you just posted is incorrect

#85 carpanfan96

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 01:27 AM

really? I was pretty sure that the amount from the option bonus is determined by the language of the buy back clause in the contract if the team doesn't exercise the option bonus.

This is really, really old.... but


NFL contracts are generally not guaranteed, unlike those in baseball, basketball and hockey. Technically, option bonuses aren't guaranteed, either.

Before 2001, such deals were rare. But clubs have warmed to the structure because it allows them to close deals with key players and lessen the first-year hit under the NFL's $71.1 million salary cap. "I think they've institutionalized it," says Duberstein, referring to agents and clubs.




Ravens vice president Ozzie Newsome says, "When we did the deal, we were looking for a long-term relationship."

Grbac has retired. Still, since Grbac's deal, agents have pressed to include more protection for players with option bonuses who could be vulnerable if injured or if their performance falls. Buyback clauses, incentives and other guarantees are all part of the mix.

Consider Jets running back Curtis Martin's new eight-year, $46 million contract. If the Jets don't pick up a $10 million option, he's still guaranteed $8.4 million.

"The way most of these deals are structured, it's not to the team's advantage not to exercise the option," says agent Roosevelt Barnes, whose clients include Ravens linebackers Lewis and Peter Boulware. "If players are cut, they can ite off the free-agent apple again."




#86 R0CKnR0LLA

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 01:29 AM

yes really

this would all be much easier if the panthers would just disclose the full contract details to me, sorry guys


speaking to stwearts contract as im pretty much having to piece together numerous reports. honestly while the total $ amount is a bit less than DWills the structure is even worse when looked at from the panthers POV it's even worse. fug man really guys fug how i dont even... how.... its just... who thought this poo up... really ... fug man.,.................

#87 carpanfan96

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 01:36 AM

yes really

this would all be much easier if the panthers would just disclose the full contract details to me, sorry guys


speaking to stwearts contract as im pretty much having to piece together numerous reports. honestly while the total $ amount is a bit less than DWills the structure is even worse when looked at from the panthers POV it's even worse. fug man really guys fug how i dont even... how.... its just... who thought this poo up... really ... fug man.,.................



I know his signing bonus is really 25.5 million and part of it's due in 2012, 2013, 2014 and 2015. With 2.5 million due in 2015 that's injury guaranteed up to after the superbowl then it becomes fully guaranteed.



Edit:

Also on another note, how a team would even think about giving a RB that has injury questions one of the richest RB contracts in the NFL based on guaranteed money is beyond me.

#88 R0CKnR0LLA

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 01:37 AM

sorry i might break down stewarts deal in the future but the full details havent been disclosed to date and its not exactly relevant to this upcoming offseason as his deal will still be inexpensive until 2014 so the new GM wont have to make a decision until then. this is a whole new discussion anyway and really doesn't have anything to do with the matter at hand. Dwills cap hit and value will/should be determined completely independently of this.

#89 R0CKnR0LLA

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 01:38 AM

I know his signing bonus is really 25.5 million and part of it's due in 2012, 2013, 2014 and 2015. With 2.5 million due in 2015 that's injury guaranteed up to after the superbowl then it becomes fully guaranteed.


everything you just posted is incorrect

#90 carpanfan96

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 01:41 AM

everything you just posted is incorrect






http://www.nfl.com/n...nsion-breakdown


The Guarantee

Stewart's deal includes $23 million in stated guarantees, but that number is actually a bit higher since it does not include his $811,250 base salary from 2012. Also, if you include the $1.75 million non-guaranteed portion of his $4.25 million base salary in 2015, the figure rises to around $25.5 million, which would narrowly edge out the $25 million that was essentially guaranteed in Williams' contract. (By the way, $2.5 million of Stewart's 2015 base salary is guaranteed for injury right now, but will become fully guaranteed three days after Super Bowl XLVII).

At $23 million, Stewart's guarantee ranks third behind Adrian Peterson ($36 million) and Chris Johnson ($30 million). 63 percent of the "new money" in Stewart's contract is guaranteed, which barely edges Rice (62.9 percent) for the highest guarantee percentage among these nine running back deals.




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