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Restaurant discrimination against black customers


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#226 Proudiddy

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 11:23 AM

Ummmm, don't you stereotype every time you spout off about capitalist swine, and stupid gun toting Republicans?


Stop being so angry and open your eyes, there is a real world out there.

You want to know what....I often gave up my Sunday shifts because of the types of folks that came into my restaurant......you know, after church white folks that were needy and tip poorly. Not to mention the average table cost was lower than every other day of the week.

More work and less tips = No fuzz

I have watched Michael Jordan shaft a restaurant not just for a tip, but also for the entire meal and drinks.....and have also seen Steve Buschemi do the same.


They should have a word with my boy Peyton...

http://sports.yahoo....-210105919.html

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He is one guy that I've always thought would be cool to run into without all of that "Don't you know I'm blah blah blah?"

#227 thefuzz

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 11:38 AM

They should have a word with my boy Peyton...

http://sports.yahoo....-210105919.html

Posted Image
He is one guy that I've always thought would be cool to run into without all of that "Don't you know I'm blah blah blah?"



Funny, but I think that was at The Angus Barn...a restaurant that I mentioned earlier in this thread.

You don't have to pay to be treated like royalty, but you should.

#228 googoodan

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 12:59 PM

Funny Jordan was brought up, since I was discussing this with a coworker recently.
I've seen restaurant staff/management tell Michael Jordan "it's on the house"

Why the fug would you give Michael Jordan a free meal, then turn around and call the police on a homeless person taking a scrap from your trash can?

Anyway, back to tipping internationally...

I lived in Europe 6 years. In Germany, family restaurants with a waitstaff are generally supposed to be ab all day affair. It's expected to sit and talk amongst yourselves for a while before meeting your server. The service is generally slow and not very personal.
As an American, I didn't understand that at first. I still avoided those types of restaurants and just went to dönerkebabs on the street. I was told that tipping anything more than 1 euro was ridiculous and not expected. I still tipped a good amount.

My favorite restaurants, here or abroad, are those little hole in the wall Mexican restaurants that are meant for Mexicans, not for gringos. Nobody speaks English and the food is authentic Mexican, none of that beans and burrito BS. My wife speaks Spanish natively and I'm pretty good too so language is definitely not an issue. Those places usually don't expect a tip, but I tend to leave a good one.

I ate at a pizza hut, I can't remember if it was Brussels or Prague, but it was like a formal restaurant. Silk tablecloths, wine glasses, waitstaff in formal attire and white gloves, etc.
They were caught off guard by a tip. The staff caught me at the door and tried to return money I had forgotten.

The absolute worst restaurant I'd ever eaten was on the island of Tenerife, on the Canary Islands. Keep in mind, most of the tourists in the area are Irish, and there are very few Spanish speakers there (the island is a Spanish territory). So the waiters at this restaurant spoke Spanish amongst themselves freely. Yes, my wife and I heard them insulting us after she found a dead insect in her salad. After letting them know we understood everything they said, they suddenly became asskissers and put the meal on the house. That worked out since the food was literally too disgusting to eat.

#229 SZ James

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 01:06 PM

The absolute worst restaurant I'd ever eaten was on the island of Tenerife, on the Canary Islands. Keep in mind, most of the tourists in the area are Irish, and there are very few Spanish speakers there (the island is a Spanish territory). So the waiters at this restaurant spoke Spanish amongst themselves freely. Yes, my wife and I heard them insulting us after she found a dead insect in her salad. After letting them know we understood everything they said, they suddenly became asskissers and put the meal on the house. That worked out since the food was literally too disgusting to eat.


Wow.

I would punch them in their fuging faces.

#230 R0CKnR0LLA

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 01:47 PM

as a bartender i am conflicted about the "black people don't tip" debate for a variety of reasons, and watching the debates (and pstall vs GS mudslinging) has made things even more complex for me.

of course the "black people don't tip" misnomer has been deconstructed long ago (and nearly roundly ignored) by my presentation of the simple fact that socio-economic factors are at play. it's not that black people don't tip, it's that poor people don't tip, and a black person is statistically more likely to fit into those lower socio-economic brackets. and then you have the culture of poverty at play, which is essentially a sociological term coined to describe the passing of various societal traits based in and reflecting poverty (such as not tipping) that is passed on in spite of an individual's eventual accumulation of wealth (which is why you often hear of rich athletes who come from poor families tipping poorly.)

i've used my time at the bar to analyze these things pretty heavily. there have been plenty of times where i've gotten stiffed by black people, but i've gotten stiffed by enough white people and hispanic people and asian people to realize that the issue is far more nuanced than people want to admit. there's just a lot of varying factors conflicting and most of them transcend race. it just happens to be that skin color is the most instantly noticeable thing about a person and therefore it's the lazy (read: easy) correlation to make, regardless of accuracy.


The excuse of being poor and not tipping is a bad one. No matter how broke I am I'm going to factor in a tip with whatever money I have. If I only have $30 to my name I'm not going into a restaurant and ordering enough food so my total ends up being $29.98. I'll make sure my total is $25 or less so I have enough left over to tip. If I only have $25? Then I'll order $20 or less, not complicated stuff here. No matter how much money you have you can factor in a tip ahead of time, 15% is not ground breaking.

And as I mentioned earlier, that wasn't my experience anyway. I found that economic situation did play a factor, although not nearly as much as race. As a delivery driver you got a very clear picture of someone's economic situation.

I would see their neighborhood, their house, the general area, the car in their driveway, the inside of their place when they answered the door, the normal everyday clothes they wore. And I delivered to some absolutely horrible areas I would never want to live in, house falling apart, paint peeling, 20 year old rustbucket of a car in the driveway, person answers the door in ripped old stained clothes,

And if they were non-black I'd still get tipped 10-15% more often than not. Even latinos, which on average were the poorest I delivered to, still tipped. Not as high as the middle or upper income areas but every single latino I ever delivered to was in a lower income area and I never once got completely stiffed.

And there were numerous blacks I delivered to in upper income areas and you generally still got tipped poorly in those instances. I didn't get stiffed as often as blacks in low income areas but I'd get like $40-$50 orders and then a $1-$2 tip.

My experiences broke down like this

black in low income area: 80% nothing or whatever change was left over. Maybe if you were "lucky" you'd get a dollar or two but very VERY rare to get an actual good tip.

black in higher income area: stiffing dropped here to "only" 40-50%, but as I mentioned the tips I would get would not be very good, most times just $1-$2. Still it would be rare to get a good tip, although not quite as rare as the low income blacks.

non-black in low income area: generally 10-15% and there wasn't much variance here. Getting 20% or more, or getting completely stiffed both were pretty rare.

non-black in higher income area: 15-20% generally, occasionally you would get someone that would give you a big over-tip, and then there was probably 20% of people or so that would give you only 10%. I probably did thousands of deliveries while doing that job and I never, and I mean never, got stiffed in these situations.


BTW my service was the exact same to everyone. Even if somehow I could tell that a person was planning to stiff me it was still in my best interest to get there and back to the store as fast as possible so I could take the next delivery. Faster drive times = more deliveries = more money (at least in theory). Intentionally taking long on a delivery because I thought they might stiff me would just be screwing myself over. As far as politeness and so forth it really wasn't that hard to be nice and friendly for 15-30 seconds at a time. So honestly I don't buy the whole "black people tip bad because they get bad service" excuse either.

#231 Cary Kollins

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 03:04 PM

Whoever asked "why give jordan a free meal?"... Probably because he gives your restaurant recognition just by him showing up. Word of mouth that Jordan eats there = free advertisement. Also if you hook him up there's a chance he rents out the joint for a private party for lots of $$$.

#232 GOOGLE RON PAUL

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 03:33 PM

Ummmm, don't you stereotype every time you spout off about capitalist swine, and stupid gun toting Republicans?


Stop being so angry and open your eyes, there is a real world out there.

You want to know what....I often gave up my Sunday shifts because of the types of folks that came into my restaurant......you know, after church white folks that were needy and tip poorly. Not to mention the average table cost was lower than every other day of the week.

More work and less tips = No fuzz

I have watched Michael Jordan shaft a restaurant not just for a tip, but also for the entire meal and drinks.....and have also seen Steve Buschemi do the same.


hey thanks for quoting my post and not actually responding to any part of it. i think i'll do the same

well except for this

More work and less tips = No fuzz


huh interesting i came into this thread routinely tipping 15-20% but after reading this i'll probably never tip again

#233 R0CKnR0LLA

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 03:36 PM

I knew I had seen a breakdown on this phenomenon before so I decided to go dig it up for you guys. If anyone is interested here you go

http://tipthepizzagu...d.php?num=12915

#234 GOOGLE RON PAUL

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 03:51 PM

still don't see how this system is good for anyone but employers

it clearly results in stereotyping and poor service for some
it causes significant uncertainty of take-home pay on a weekly basis
it places the onus on the customer to directly pay the server a living wage (particularly in NC)

#235 Porn Shop Clerk

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 04:18 PM

i'm shocked you left out the avoidance of taxes

#236 GOOGLE RON PAUL

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 04:24 PM

someone mentioned earlier that you're taxed on the assumption that you've been tipped at like an 8% rate, and you're definitely taxed at the minimum wage as it's illegal for a person to take home less than that.

#237 mmmbeans

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 04:25 PM

someone mentioned earlier that you're taxed on the assumption that you've been tipped at like an 8% rate, and you're definitely taxed at the minimum wage as it's illegal for a person to take home less than that.


what? I don't think that's true.


what does "taxed at the minimum wage" even mean?

#238 GOOGLE RON PAUL

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 04:26 PM

if i'm mistaken, feel free to correct me. i've never worked a tipped job.

#239 GOOGLE RON PAUL

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 04:28 PM

you're taxed as if you make minimum wage regardless because if you're employed, you make at least the minimum. at least that was my assumption. again if i'm wrong feel free to correct me. if you're not guaranteed minimum wage, that would only strengthen my arguments against tipped positions

#240 mmmbeans

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 04:32 PM

you're taxed as if you make minimum wage regardless because if you're employed, you make at least the minimum. at least that was my assumption. again if i'm wrong feel free to correct me. if you're not guaranteed minimum wage, that would only strengthen my arguments against tipped positions


you're guaranteed minimum... but you almost always make more than that... my confusion was your catagorization of "minimum wage" as a tax bracket. You're taxed on income just like everyone else... most people who work for tips don't claim cash tips as income... therefor they are not taxed on that money, additionally, because it looks like they make so little on the books, they exist in a lower tax bracket than they often would otherwise... One of the reasons that tip jobs CAN be very good.


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