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Restaurant discrimination against black customers


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#31 Happy Panther

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 11:31 AM

it would do you well to study the correlation between race and socio-economic status. yes, black people tend to tip less, just like - shockingly - people at the bottom rung of the socio-economic scale tend to tip less. you do the math.


Both can be predictive variables. The question is which has a higher correlation. In my experience it was race by far.

#32 SuperMan

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 11:32 AM

it's just interesting to me that the first thing you did was try to point out that some black people are prejudiced too, as though to justify white people being prejudiced. which sadly falls perfectly into lockstep with some of the other sentiments you've expressed in other threads.

it would do you well to study the correlation between race and socio-economic status. yes, black people tend to tip less, just like - shockingly - people at the bottom rung of the socio-economic scale tend to tip less. you do the math.


As someone who both served and bartended, I can say blacks definitely tip considerably lower that other groups no matter what kind of service is provided.
I never discriminated based on the color of people's skin however I let the way they conducted themselves towards me decide the service they would get, to me even worse than the non tipping factor is the vast majority of blacks would be disrespectful obnoxious and rude compared to other groups, I could always deal with a low tip if I knew that they probably needed the money more than I do.

There are always exceptions as in anything there were several regulars who were respectful and tipped well, but I would say at least 80% tip poorly and at least 60% were rude and disrespectful reguardless of the level of service.


#33 PhillyB

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 11:37 AM

As someone who both served and bartended, I can say blacks definitely tip considerably lower that other groups no matter what kind of service is provided.


ALL blacks tipped considerably lower?

did ALL whites tip considerably higher?

you're making sweeping generalizations and ignoring the imbalance of one race versus the other in lower socio-economic brackets (a point which exactly zero members of the blacks-dont-tip squad have yet to actually address.)

#34 PhillyB

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 11:37 AM

Both can be predictive variables. The question is which has a higher correlation. In my experience it was race by far.


how does the culture of poverty fit into your quotient

#35 Happy Panther

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 11:47 AM

how does the culture of poverty fit into your quotient


Quotient? Not sure where a quotient is.

But a regression analysis would correct for a culture of poverty in determining predictive variables.

#36 Happy Panther

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 11:49 AM

http://www.dailymail...ners-bills.html

French Canadians are also bad tippers apparently

#37 mav1234

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 11:52 AM

ALL blacks tipped considerably lower?

did ALL whites tip considerably higher?

you're making sweeping generalizations and ignoring the imbalance of one race versus the other in lower socio-economic brackets (a point which exactly zero members of the blacks-dont-tip squad have yet to actually address.)


rocknrolla actually touched on it by saying blacks in nice neighborhoods tipped poorly and non-blacks in poor neighborhoods tipped well.

dunno... I've heard stuff like this before. I have no problem with *people* who have tip poorly getting poor service, but it's basically just a cycle that if you treat someone who has never eaten at your place poorly because of how they look, that will cause a lower tip, and so on...

#38 PhillyB

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 11:54 AM

rocknrolla actually touched on it by saying blacks in nice neighborhoods tipped poorly and non-blacks in poor neighborhoods tipped well.


my experience has been the opposite, which is why anecdotes are a shaky foundation at best for generalizations

#39 TbTeRRoR

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 12:04 PM

I treat them all the same no matter what. Is it racist if I just have low hopes of getting a good return? Is it racist to doubt based on experience?

How about this nugget. If you cannot afford to tip a hard working waitress properly don't eat there. I'm not exactly rolling in money myself. So I rarely get the occasion to eat at steak houses and so forth because I know what I can and cannot afford. So I don't like the whole low income excuse. I'd love to eat a big ole steak right now but I'm heading to the microwave as soon as I hit post to heat up my leftovers for lunch. Good day kind sirs

#40 PhillyB

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 12:08 PM

I treat them all the same no matter what. Is it racist if I just have low hopes of getting a good return? Is it racist to doubt based on experience?

How about this nugget. If you cannot afford to tip a hard working waitress properly don't eat there. I'm not exactly rolling in money myself. So I rarely get the occasion to eat at steak houses and so forth because I know what I can and cannot afford. So I don't like the whole low income excuse. I'd love to eat a big ole steak right now but I'm heading to the microwave as soon as I hit post to heat up my leftovers for lunch. Good day kind sirs


quick change your argument entirely and disguise it as though it's what you've been saying all along! then say something that makes you look like someone everyone can relate to! then peace out! no one is a match for TBTeRRoR

#41 Happy Panther

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 12:09 PM

I treat them all the same no matter what. Is it racist if I just have low hopes of getting a good return? Is it racist to doubt based on experience?


Do you believe black people are inferior because they don't tip as well?

#42 PhillyB

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 12:10 PM

still waiting for someone to address how the culture of poverty fits into this equation, but that probably won't happen because it would involve admitting that the issue is far more nuanced than "black people dont tip grrrrr" and as we know it's a lot easier to make an angry argument when there are no pesky shades of gray

#43 SuperMan

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 12:12 PM

ALL blacks tipped considerably lower?

did ALL whites tip considerably higher?

you're making sweeping generalizations and ignoring the imbalance of one race versus the other in lower socio-economic brackets (a point which exactly zero members of the blacks-dont-tip squad have yet to actually address.)


I conducted a study over a weeks period of time...

Out of the 39 groups of African american guests 29 tipped 8% or less (I conducted this at a bar in north Raleigh) 5 tipped 15% or less and 4 tipped 20%.

Out of the 83 groups of European Americans I had 4 tipped less than 8% 28 tipped 15% or less and 51 tipped at least 20%.

The one Asian group (Japanese) tipped 26%.

The three Hispanic groups all tipped around 17% (easily the lowest economic status)

I had two Indian groups they both tipped 10% to the penny although being well to be businessmen.


Take from it as you will.


I understand not tipping due to being broke but if that's the case you should have PRIORITYS.

#44 mmmbeans

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 12:15 PM

still waiting for someone to address how the culture of poverty fits into this equation, but that probably won't happen because it would involve admitting that the issue is far more nuanced than "black people dont tip grrrrr" and as we know it's a lot easier to make an angry argument when there are no pesky shades of gray


of course the issue is nuanced, i don't think anyone in here is arguing that skin color is WHY people don't tip... some are simply acknowledging an anecdotal correlation... others are... doing the same thing they always do. what i'd be interested to see (and what would actually be illuminating in this situation,) would be a breakdown of tipping based off the server's race. Do white people tip more when the server is white? do black people tip more when the server is black? I bet the answer to both are yes.


europeans don't tip for shiat. THERE, I SAID IT!

#45 PhillyB

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 12:16 PM

I conducted a study over a weeks period of time...

Out of the 39 groups of African american guests 29 tipped 8% or less (I conducted this at a bar in north Raleigh) 5 tipped 15% or less and 4 tipped 20%.

Out of the 83 groups of European Americans I had 4 tipped less than 8% 28 tipped 15% or less and 51 tipped at least 20%.

The one Asian group (Japanese) tipped 26%.

The three Hispanic groups all tipped around 17% (easily the lowest economic status)

I had two Indian groups they both tipped 10% to the penny although being well to be businessmen.


Take from it as you will.


I understand not tipping due to being broke but if that's the case you should have PRIORITYS.


how did you control for the socio-economic statuses of each of the individuals in your sample? without specific knowledge of each one your conclusion is fundamentally flawed, and as such completely expendable, and arguably dangerous because you're tossing around unsound data under the guise of scientific derivation.


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