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The case for firing Rivera and the case for keeping Rivera

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Posted

Promoted to article. Nice.

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"...but I also think the Panthers will be one of the most sought after jobs by coaches should it come open."

Not so sure about that. Jerry Richardson has proven himself to be pretty frugal and won't pay a top coach's salary. Witness John Fox in his last season in Charlotte only making about $3M as one of the longest tenured coaches in the league after all his years with the Panthers.

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People made fun of Bill Walsh before he came to the NFL. Said his style of offense, the West Coast, would never work. His work transcended the game. Beliacheat went out to Oregon this off-season to see what all this Chip Kelly hub-bub was about. The Patriots then fixed their problems on explosive plays this year.

The common denominator between all three coaches is their attention to details and their work ethic for perfection. I'd take a gamble on it. Yes, in the NFL you only have 1 first round pick and the Salary cap vs the 17 scholarships you can throw out but I think Kelly will make it work in the NFL. I just don't want us to pass it by and be left wondering what if much like our Kickoff out of bounds in the Superbowl.

Rivera hasn't shown me anything more that many other coaches that are currently losing their jobs have. Yes, the defense is playing better, they played hard but it was against teams that are in as much of a mess as ours, minus Atlanta. Brady Quinn looked like Joe Cool in the pocket. Brady Quinn couldn't even hold Delhomme's clipboard. Clock Mismanagement is worse than kids playing Madden. I was optimistic coming into this year that if our defense was middle of the road we would make the playoffs. Our defense was better than middle of the road, yet the regression on offense was terrible. Why do you have to be on the hot-seat before you perform? Ideally you want that consistency all 16 games not just 5.

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Posted

Pretty much sums up my feelings. Indifferent. Torn. Loved the post, nice job

Promoted to article. Nice.

Yes, very worthy of article status, kudo's.

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Posted

"...but I also think the Panthers will be one of the most sought after jobs by coaches should it come open."

Not so sure about that. Jerry Richardson has proven himself to be pretty frugal and won't pay a top coach's salary. Witness John Fox in his last season in Charlotte only making about $3M as one of the longest tenured coaches in the league after all his years with the Panthers.

I do believe Fox was in the 6 mil. range

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Posted

Not so sure about that. Jerry Richardson has proven himself to be pretty frugal and won't pay a top coach's salary. Witness John Fox in his last season in Charlotte only making about $3M as one of the longest tenured coaches in the league after all his years with the Panthers.

Fox was one of the top ten highest paid coaches in the NFL that season and the entire staff's salary was among the highest in the NFL that year.

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Posted

Personally, I would prefer to keep RR for another year. He's done a great job with the *defense and from what we've seen in videos or on the field, he still has the locker room and respect of the players. The mere fact that they played hard for the final weeks of the season shows that they really respect him. I feel like firing Rivera would cause more problems. What we need is a better OC with head coaching experience. (NORV)

Edit - wrote offense instead of defense* - (hangover)

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Posted

"Fox was one of the top ten highest paid coaches in the NFL that season and the entire staff's salary was among the highest in the NFL that year."

I'm not sure what your reference is, but while there are several lists out there, I just saw one from 2011 where Fox wasn't in the top 10, and I'm sure he didn't take a pay cut to go to Denver. Top 10 means nothing and is rather deceiving when the top guys that years were making at least twice what Fox was and some of them had less than half the tenure as a head coach than Fox.

Bill Belichick New England Patriots $7.50 million

Mike Shanahan Washington Redskins $7.00 million

Pete Carroll Seattle Seahawks $6.70 million

Jeff Fisher Tennessee Titans $5.75 million

Mike Tomlin Pittsburgh Steelers $5.75 million

Ken Whisenhunt Arizona Cardinals $5.75 million

Andy Reid Philadelphia Eagles $5.50 million

Tom Coughlin New York Giants $5.25 million

Jack Del Rio Jacksonville Jaguars $5.00 million

Lovie Smith Chicago Bears $4.80 million

http://www.buzzle.com/articles/nfl-coaches-salaries-of-nfl-coaches2011.html

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I'll make an argument as to why he should stay:

1. Most of the poor decision making came early in his career as a HC. As he has gained experience, his game management has become much better.

2. A lot of the early close losses where results of things just out of his control. Yes, he should have gone for it on 4th down against Atlanta, but IF Cam had not fumbled, that call never would have had to be made. He also is not the one who let White get behind him for the catch to put them in FG position. Against, the Bears, he couldn't control Smith slipping on the route which resulted in the pick 6. It seems nothing good went in the Panther's favor during that spell (losing 13 or so coin tosses, not having the fumble against Denver called as the runner approached the EZ, not getting personal fouls called against the defense and yet the defensive players are fined for hits after the game, etc., etc. Again, he did play too conservative early which hurt them but he learned from his mistakes and the time management and play calling have vastly improved over the course of his career.

3. He realized his mistake with the option read on offense and while the changed took a little too long, he did learn from his mistake and made the proper changes.

4. The Panther's have finally learned how to win. Against the Saints, I really believe the earlier Panther's would have folded in the 3rd quarter. They would have tried to have Cam either run too much or throw too much which never worked before. Instead, they just continued running with DW and T. So on a day when Cam only completes 48% of his passes (multiple dropped passes), only runs for 34 yards, is not responsible for a single TD, AND throws a pick 6, the Panthers still win convincingly.

5. And finally, one of my major frustrations originally with RR was how sloppy the Panther's played. You could always count on a penalty filled game. And those penalties always seemed to come at the worst times. Not anymore. One of the most marked improvements I have seen over the course of the two years is how much more disciplined they now play. There are still penalties, but nothing like when he first took over. When you consider how many of the players are either rookies or were PS players, I think it is even more remarkable. Playing good, sound, disciplined football as team is the result of good coaching - plain and simple.

Given all those improvements, I can't help but feel that Rivera has earned a chance at one more year. It really would be a shame to get rid of him just as he got to the point where he needs to be. No one would get rid of a rookie QB in his second year after showing improvements just because he wasn't able to win the big one. It's the improvements and development that are important and under any metric, Rivera has delivered in that regard.

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Posted

"Fox was one of the top ten highest paid coaches in the NFL that season and the entire staff's salary was among the highest in the NFL that year."

I'm not sure what your reference is, but while there are several lists out there, I just saw one from 2011 where Fox wasn't in the top 10, and I'm sure he didn't take a pay cut to go to Denver. Top 10 means nothing and is rather deceiving when the top guys that years were making at least twice what Fox was and some of them had less than half the tenure as a head coach than Fox.

Bill Belichick New England Patriots $7.50 million

Mike Shanahan Washington Redskins $7.00 million

Pete Carroll Seattle Seahawks $6.70 million

Jeff Fisher Tennessee Titans $5.75 million

Mike Tomlin Pittsburgh Steelers $5.75 million

Ken Whisenhunt Arizona Cardinals $5.75 million

Andy Reid Philadelphia Eagles $5.50 million

Tom Coughlin New York Giants $5.25 million

Jack Del Rio Jacksonville Jaguars $5.00 million

Lovie Smith Chicago Bears $4.80 million

http://www.buzzle.co...oaches2011.html

Here is one link. He made 6 million in 2010 and the entire staff's comnpensation was also amongst the highest in the NFL

Some prominent NFL coaches who were nearing the ends of their contracts had their salary figures released. John Fox (Carolina Panthers) was in the final year of his contract and was to earn $6 million in 2010;

http://www.ehow.com/...head-coach.html

and another

Richardson ultimately kept Fox on for another year in what amounted to a disastrous lame duck season in 2010, later saying he couldn't justify to the team's shareholders to buy out the final year of Fox's contract — and those of his staff — at an estimated cost of more than $11 million.

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Here is one link. He made 6 million in 2010 and the entire staff's comnpensation was also amongst the highest in the NFL

and another

which is why he didn't want to fire that coaching staff and hire another one. didn't want to pay for two staffs. didn't like it, but understood it.

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Posted

I'll make an argument as to why he should stay:

1. Most of the poor decision making came early in his career as a HC. As he has gained experience, his game management has become much better.

2. A lot of the early close losses where results of things just out of his control. Yes, he should have gone for it on 4th down against Atlanta, but IF Cam had not fumbled, that call never would have had to be made. He also is not the one who let White get behind him for the catch to put them in FG position. Against, the Bears, he couldn't control Smith slipping on the route which resulted in the pick 6. It seems nothing good went in the Panther's favor during that spell (losing 13 or so coin tosses, not having the fumble against Denver called as the runner approached the EZ, not getting personal fouls called against the defense and yet the defensive players are fined for hits after the game, etc., etc. Again, he did play too conservative early which hurt them but he learned from his mistakes and the time management and play calling have vastly improved over the course of his career.

3. He realized his mistake with the option read on offense and while the changed took a little too long, he did learn from his mistake and made the proper changes.

4. The Panther's have finally learned how to win. Against the Saints, I really believe the earlier Panther's would have folded in the 3rd quarter. They would have tried to have Cam either run too much or throw too much which never worked before. Instead, they just continued running with DW and T. So on a day when Cam only completes 48% of his passes (multiple dropped passes), only runs for 34 yards, is not responsible for a single TD, AND throws a pick 6, the Panthers still win convincingly.

5. And finally, one of my major frustrations originally with RR was how sloppy the Panther's played. You could always count on a penalty filled game. And those penalties always seemed to come at the worst times. Not anymore. One of the most marked improvements I have seen over the course of the two years is how much more disciplined they now play. There are still penalties, but nothing like when he first took over. When you consider how many of the players are either rookies or were PT players, I think it is even more remarkable. Playing good, sound, disciplined football as team is the result of good coaching - plain and simple.

Given all those improvements, I can't help but feel that Rivera has earned a chance at one more year. It really would be a shame to get rid of him just as he got to the point where he needs to be. No one would get rid of a rookie QB in his second year after showing improvements just because he wasn't able to win the big one. It's the improvements and development that are important and under any metric, Rivera has delivered in that regard.

You bring up some good points and I don't wholeheartedly disagree with you.

However.

We were wasting timeouts against the Saints and against Oakland we botched the end of the first half by using a final timeout when we should have been spiking the ball thus limiting our playcalling options especially after the penalty that pushed us back.

Nobody remembers those things because we won those games. But those are the type of things that lose close games.

It didn't get much better. We just happened to win some games so people didn't notice.

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