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The case for firing Rivera and the case for keeping Rivera


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#46 teeray

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 03:58 PM

Teeray, I am also on the fence, but the wind is blowing me toward the "fire Rivera" side. Still, I am not convinced that such a move would solve anything, because we are playing better. However, we are still underperforming. Here are my reasons, ranked in order of significance:

Fire RR:
1. Discipline. When my QB ignores my QB coach on the sideline while donning a towel over his head that features the logo of a company the QB endorses, I have a problem with the coaching staff that would allow it. Not to mention that the QB had just kicked an opponent and bumped a ref--REGARDLESS OF THE REASON he did it. Now, this works both ways--the fact that Rivera did not pull Cam to help his attitudinal development is significant, but also significant is the fact that a player who knows the coach has his back is less likely to take matters into his own hands. Cam should have been benched for a. losing his composure, b. ignoring his coach c. pouting and not resuming his place as a team leader.


If a QB got benched for every time he cursed and got in a ref's face, Tom Brady and Philip Rivers would hardly ever play. The bump was unintentional, which is why he wasn't kicked out of the game. But it did happen which is why he got flagged.

Not to mention that he was being driven into the ground or hit late over and over again with no flag from the ref.

2. Game management. People forget, however, that RR was aware of the shortcomings he had on the field. You mention plays in which Norman and Nakamura were attacked by the opposition. I blame Hurney for the fact that RR had a special teamer and a 5th round rookie from a small school in the game. Norman is not physical and was outsized during the Chicago drive. Jamming the huge WR or taking away the slant was not realistic and would have led to a big play. Rivera did not have the cards to win the hand. HOWEVER, he had the player on the bench who could take that away from Chicago--the other Josh. Why was he not playing?


I am not debating the playcalling itself as much as using it as an example of a coach that is trying to find himself and his identity. I think after the ATL he over corrected and became too cautious when the CHI situation came up. He hasn't been a head coach long enough to have a strong conviction of how he should handle certain situations. When you have been a head coach for a while you become confident in your convictions because you have been successful doing things a certain way. If you have not been a head coach a while, when a game like ATL happens you start questioning yourself first. It is a process that almost any coach has to go through. Eventually Rivera will decide what works best for him, and then probably become stubborn about it like every coach does.

As far as the Norman point you made. I agree, but at some point, as the offense is getting closer to the scoring zone in a field goal game, you have to take the risk of getting beat over the top. You can't let the offense just move the ball right down the field like that for fear of getting beat deep. Not when they start getting close to midfield and all they need is a field goal.

3. That leads to personnel decisions. I am not sure RR is playing the best people. Kuechly was better in the middle than Beason from day 1. Beason's injuries and his height made him a bit of a liability compared to Luke. Luke on the outside reduced his effectiveness as well. How often at the end of the season did you ask, "Why was Thomas not playing all season?" Our defense did not improve until Beason went to IR. Kearse was cut and then brought back to start over Fua. Looked pretty decent. What did Gettis do? After Atlanta, what made Nakamura better than Martin? I think he needs to evaluate talent every day, every week, etc. and start playing the best players.


I agree with you on this. But sometimes it is hard to project practice to game day. I think you have coached before so you probably know that sometimes a guy looks great in practice but is invisible in a game, and sometimes a guy looks like he couldn't play dead in a John Wayne movie in practice but when the lights come on is an all-pro.

I think we learned a lot more about some of these players at the end of the season when they had a chance to get in some games.

#47 Happy Panther

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 04:49 PM

The "coach thing" isn't wrong. The OP says Fox was paid about $6M in 2010 and his coaching staff was somewhere in the $11M range. The figures I posted for 2011 don't even have Fox breaking the $5M mark... so we're to conclude he took that much of a pay cut in Denver?

He didn't set the salary budget. The salary cap is what sets the budget, it's not like JR tells the GM, "This is your budget..."

Huge misconception there. Each team's salary cap and its current situation sets the limit for the checkbook, not the owner telling the GM, "I know we have a $120M salary cap, but I will only let you spend $100M."

And JR had nothing to do with it, Marty Hurney engineered the salary cap situation.


This is your argument for JR being cheap?

#48 Pimpdaddy

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 05:25 PM

...My gut is to keep Riviera...He's played the game, hes been a coordinator and has football acumen...he's been around the track so to speak. We have to set a course and stick with it...thru good and bad, ups and downs.Riv was handed a bag of sht and has not had a reasonable amount of time to put his mark on this team. We need stability and direction, not a coaching carrousel.

What made Foxy great was his outstanding coordinators, Henning and Del Rio and a lucky ass Duhlomme who had a guy named Smitty who would sacrifice his body for recognition. Fox was sht after they left....He's doing it again, he has the best o coordinator in Payton Manning...he'll ride this for another few years but he'll come back to reality if Manning goes down..

I think if we get some decent coordinators, shore up the o line, cut the dead weight and get rid of the 5-6 mofos standin on the sidelines that don't contribute jack we will be able to take that next step...
If we had some decent coordinators on both sides of the ball Rivera could concentrate on coaching. He has to deal with schizoid Chud and McDouchebag...Riv is putting his stamp on the D...you can see that.

#49 Anybodyhome

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 05:33 PM

This is your argument for JR being cheap?


You're the one that stated Richardson paid and/or overpaid players. I merely pointed out that is not the case and that paying players based upon a salary cap has nothing to do with paying coaches. This is beside the fact the GM is doing the contract negotiating and deciding the salary structure, not JR.

You used the example of overpaying players as evidence that he's not cheap. The argument has nothing to do with players; we were talking about coaches.

#50 Happy Panther

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 09:32 PM

You're the one that stated Richardson paid and/or overpaid players. I merely pointed out that is not the case and that paying players based upon a salary cap has nothing to do with paying coaches. This is beside the fact the GM is doing the contract negotiating and deciding the salary structure, not JR.

You used the example of overpaying players as evidence that he's not cheap. The argument has nothing to do with players; we were talking about coaches.


Ok. He paid John Fox $6.5M.

#51 Bj-Monster23

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 09:40 PM

It doesn't matter anymore we are stuck with being content and mediocre. The fact that reminds is Richardson is going to bring Rivera back. Smh

#52 Happy Panther

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 09:57 PM

It doesn't matter anymore we are stuck with being content and mediocre. The fact that reminds is Richardson is going to bring Rivera back. Smh


Hopefully Richardson isn't bringing Rivera back.

Richardson is hiring a GM who will make that decision.

Hopefully.

#53 cranky

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 01:59 PM

You are saying that because RR finally got things turned around after Hurney got fired and he was put on the hot seat is a good reason to keep him?


First, let me say thanks for at least admitting RR got things turned around :thumbsu:

Seriously though. All I am saying is that regardless of how he turned things around, he did. And because he did, he earned another year.

#54 Lumps

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 02:34 PM

This team is only competitive because we have Cam and Rivera knows how to coach up a defense. I don't believe we will ever reach our true potential with Ron as HC.

That said, I could live with him returning, but only if Chud is replaced by an OC/AHC with good game management skills (to help Ron in that area).

We go into next year with the same staff and I expect the same results as years 1 and 2. Flashes of brilliance, flashes of ineptitude.



this

#55 AggieLean.

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 03:06 PM

All I know is, if we're going to keep him we need to get someone in here with some major NFL experience to help him out with things such as: clock management, knowing when to go for it or not, etc. We need to get an older offensive coordinator or assistant coach. Also, Chud needs to go.

#56 Razeyfingers

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 03:07 PM

So basically, I have become pretty indifferent about the whole thing because I think a strong case can be made for either firing him or keeping him. The new GM and JR have a tough decision to make, and no matter what they decide I will see the logic in it.

This post has been promoted to an article


Easily your best post ever on the Huddle, Teeray. good stuff man, money

#57 teeray

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 03:29 PM

Easily your best post ever on the Huddle, Teeray. good stuff man, money


Thanks for the kind words!

I personally think my post in the John Kilgo thread about masturbating on my keyboard to brazzers.com is my best post. But nonetheless I appreciate your kind post.

#58 TANTRIC-NINJA

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 03:38 PM

It doesn't matter anymore we are stuck with being content and mediocre. The fact that reminds is Richardson is going to bring Rivera back. Smh


I would like to make a motion to throw ban SMH SMDH and YOLO as 2013 banned acronyms.

BJ you are to me the MOST vocal fire Rivera guy on here as to your 139 different post about Rivera
should go threads.

Who is this" Warlock of football" we will bring in If you were the GM to right this ship with flawless turnkey success?

I have not heard any name or combo of fantasy combos of three head coaches that I can see doing this personally so.

Also is Jack Del Rio a possibility?! :o

#59 Bj-Monster23

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 05:18 PM

I would like to make a motion to throw ban SMH SMDH and YOLO as 2013 banned acronyms.

BJ you are to me the MOST vocal fire Rivera guy on here as to your 139 different post about Rivera
should go threads.

Who is this" Warlock of football" we will bring in If you were the GM to right this ship with flawless turnkey success?

I have not heard any name or combo of fantasy combos of three head coaches that I can see doing this personally so.

Also is Jack Del Rio a possibility?! :o


Well their is a couple of guys I feel that would be great coaches. I really like Ken Whisenhunt. When he actually had a pretty good QB in Kurt Warner he went to the Super Bowl. He also did a good job developing Ben Roethlisberger when he was with the Steelers. The second person I believe would be a good HC is Greg Roman. He has ties to the Panthers organization and has done a good job the past couple of years in San Francisco. I also would love for JR to look at Chip Kelly.

#60 g5jamz

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 10:53 AM

Both seasons...let's look at what Rivera's record looks like against playoff teams.

2012
2-3

2011
1-6

And then you couple our wins with end of season wins where a lot of teams are packing it in for the season, explain to me again why Rivera's wins are anything worthy of saving his job.


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