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Why is it all Rivera's fault?


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#31 panthers55

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 12:42 PM

I think I'm one of the few in the "anti-Ron" camp that is not overly worried about his time management and in-game decision making. He should improve in this area. Hopefully, he will have gained enough experience to be a bit more aggressive in squeaking out points at the end of the half.

It's the offensive staff I'm worried about. In my opinion, Chud cost us a winning record this year. His early season play calling was atrocious. There was no commitment to the running game, he had the o-line in a 2 point stance playing from their heels, and we tried to finesse our way to victories. It failed miserably, as we all saw.

If I was certain that Chud had learned his lessons about the need for more balance, about the importance of getting the o-line and the backs in a rhythm, and about the need for shorter passing routes when the other team is getting pressure, then I would feel differently about him. And if I knew that we could count on Chud going forward, I would be okay with Rivera's return. Unfortunately, there is no reason to believe that Chud won't revert to his tendency to out-think himself, and there is no reason to believe that Ron will either replace him or effectively control him. And it's a damn shame because I love our defensive staff and hate to start over there if we decide to part ways with Ron.


Maybe it is me, but who in their right mind wouldn't see the way we hit on all cylinders at the end of the year and say that is what we are going to do all year next season.

As for the running game lets see whether we keep Stewart and Williams before we go down that road.

As you say I have been waiting for an aggressive defense that runs a Jim Johnson style defense for a decade. I would hate to see that go in favor of a bend don't break defense as in years past. I would hope that McDermott could do it on his own but there is no guarantee he won't go with Rivera who I suspect could get another head coaching job this year with all the vacancies out there.

#32 Bj-Monster23

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 12:46 PM

I been on the fire Ron Rivera bandwagon every since the first Falcons game. I been driving the bandwagon for most of the season. To a certain extent I have to agree with you guys it's not all his fault. But as a HC you have to be accountable for the players and you have to be accountable for your coaching staff. I believe that Rivera shouldn't return next year. He is a great defensive coach, he has helped our defense progress somewhat throughout the season. But truth be told he is not HC material.

I have seen enough of this team play the past two years to realize that we can't start out strong and we are pretty much out of playoff contention before Halloween. As a fan this is a cause for concern because that means you don't even have a chance to be in contention in November.

#33 Bj-Monster23

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 12:53 PM

Maybe it is me, but who in their right mind wouldn't see the way we hit on all cylinders at the end of the year and say that is what we are going to do all year next season.

As for the running game lets see whether we keep Stewart and Williams before we go down that road.

As you say I have been waiting for an aggressive defense that runs a Jim Johnson style defense for a decade. I would hate to see that go in favor of a bend don't break defense as in years past. I would hope that McDermott could do it on his own but there is no guarantee he won't go with Rivera who I suspect could get another head coaching job this year with all the vacancies out there.


If I'm JR I can't count on that. The reason why I can't count on that because the past two season the team started 2-8 and 3-7. What has this team done that will make him think different because the proof is in the pudding.

It's best that JR moves on and give the GM a clean slate to pick his own guy. Because if you put Rivera on a short leash you are already hurting his team performance and his confidence in going into the 2013 season. If the GM let Rivera stay he should be able to go into the season confident about his job and his only worry is coaching and game planning.

#34 TANTRIC-NINJA

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 01:06 PM

the GM doesn't set the line up. he doesn't choose the starters. he doesn't tell the coach who to put on the field in clutch situations. thats all rivera.


well of course the Gm doesnt set the lineup or put guys out there in clutch situations but my point was sure he had nakamura out there but Shettod lost his job bc he let guys get deep passes on him..blew coverage and thats about it for the FS position.

He can only use the cards he is dealt. Cliche' alert!

#35 rayzor

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 03:13 PM

well of course the Gm doesnt set the lineup or put guys out there in clutch situations but my point was sure he had nakamura out there but Shettod lost his job bc he let guys get deep passes on him..blew coverage and thats about it for the FS position.

He can only use the cards he is dealt. Cliche' alert!

shettod(?) lost his job because rivera benched him in favor of nakamura. nakamura was in that position because rivera put him there. they were in that situation to begin with because rivera didn't go for it on 4th and 1 because he had more faith in the defense (which was suspect at best at that point in time) holding back one of the best offenses in the league more than our own offenses ability to get just one yard.

if nakamura isn't fit for that kind of situation and you don't really have anyone who is, then DO NOT get put in that situation. avoid it at all costs.

that may have been a "by the book" (another cliche' for ya) play call, but it was sucky game management. and it was just one case among many the past couple years.

#36 rayzor

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 03:15 PM

Maybe it is me, but who in their right mind wouldn't see the way we hit on all cylinders at the end of the year and say that is what we are going to do all year next season.

As for the running game lets see whether we keep Stewart and Williams before we go down that road.

As you say I have been waiting for an aggressive defense that runs a Jim Johnson style defense for a decade. I would hate to see that go in favor of a bend don't break defense as in years past. I would hope that McDermott could do it on his own but there is no guarantee he won't go with Rivera who I suspect could get another head coaching job this year with all the vacancies out there.

we were hitting it on all cylinders at the end of the season last year and we thought that there was no reason to think they wouldn't heading into this one.

#37 rodeo

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 03:19 PM

we were hitting it on all cylinders at the end of the season last year and we thought that there was no reason to think they wouldn't heading into this one.

This. We had a top 5 offense in the league last year, before Chud changed it.

If we had 2011 offense with (late) 2012 defense we'd be making a deep playoff run.

#38 Ivan The Awesome

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 03:28 PM

I think every panthers fan expects a quick turn around because of John Fox and probably a couple of coaches around the league that made that happen. So patiences is thrown out the proverbial window.

That rarely happens by the way.

#39 TANTRIC-NINJA

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 03:28 PM

This. We had a top 5 offense in the league last year, before Chud changed it.

If we had 2011 offense with (late) 2012 defense we'd be making a deep playoff run.


Like a FRANKENSEASON!!

To me this shows there are major strides being made..just not at the crazy success and timeframe people are expecting.

We live in the Brady-post Jordan era. Because someone has 7 rings or 3 superbowls..it now becomes a standard or minimum expectation. Like Peyton Manning or LeBron James being called failures in some eyes despite already proving themselves 10 times over with titles as well.

I guess next season after Cam makes an MVP run he will be questioned if he can win at this level since he has ZERO rings after 3 seasons. Expectation is 4 SuperBowl titles after 3 seasons.

#40 panthers55

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 03:43 PM

we were hitting it on all cylinders at the end of the season last year and we thought that there was no reason to think they wouldn't heading into this one.


Actually the thought was after teams get a lot of film on Newton, it would be harder this year. Most people expected a sophomore slump because we ran so much read option. Panther fans didn't but the talking heads did.

#41 panthers55

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 03:46 PM

This. We had a top 5 offense in the league last year, before Chud changed it.

If we had 2011 offense with (late) 2012 defense we'd be making a deep playoff run.


The 2011 offense got exposed. Teams were playing the read option and keeping Newton in the pocket. They doubled Smitty and played tight man on everyone else. That was different than they did last year and it showed. I don't think the offense run last year was much different than what we debuted this year.

#42 Peppers90 NC

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 03:47 PM

Maybe it is me, but who in their right mind wouldn't see the way we hit on all cylinders at the end of the year and say that is what we are going to do all year next season.


if it didnt happen last year as well towards then end I think we won like 4 of last 5 or 6 and left most of us anticipating great things this year. who in their right minds wouldnt at least be cautious again. i was in the "if we go 7-9 keep ron camp," so i will stay there.

#43 panfan32

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 03:55 PM

It's just easier to blame the coach then the team, a lot of people don't even consider that players on this team just aren't very good.

Like Josh Norman, any other team in the league and the dude is on the bench and doesn't play a snap this year and people complain that he's getting benched and not starting??? Lol



True. I was not very high up on him at all this season. And our secondary did better once the staff benched his butt. Just because he played well in training camp does not mean hes a starter. 4 INT in one practice is a nice thing but does it mean he can cover his man or was it a case of right place right time or bad passes by CAM.

#44 rodeo

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 03:57 PM

The 2011 offense got exposed. Teams were playing the read option and keeping Newton in the pocket. They doubled Smitty and played tight man on everyone else. That was different than they did last year and it showed. I don't think the offense run last year was much different than what we debuted this year.

The read option wasn't the base offense last year, it was peppered in. Chud tried to run every play out of that formation for the first few games this year.

#45 carolina-chuck

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 03:57 PM

Bc when you don't win, you blame the HC. Not the assistants and players, or else Foxy would still be here.


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