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Getting Cam a QB coach worth a damn


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#41 CRA

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 11:08 PM

Delhomme was fine until his Tommy John surgery. After that, his arm strength got worse with each passing year. It was Delhomme's arm strength that did him in, but I would agree that Delhomme was a gambler.

Look at Newton's 2010 season with Auburn. In the SEC, he threw 30 tds to just 7 ints. Would you say that is gun slinging stats? Now Peyton in his rookie year (throwing to one of the best receivers in the history of the game), threw for a record 28 ints. Is Peyton a gun slinger? I see that same kind of fire in Newton's eyes to be the best QB in the game, to be an accurate passer. (I remember in an interview with Rachel Nichols, he commented on how his dad told him the correct way of holding the football was up high, but he later find out his dad didn't know what he was talking about. ^_^ So even in that piece, I see Cam's desire to be a fundamentally sound QB)

Again a 30 td/7 ints ratio are surgeon QB type numbers. I want to see that in Cam for the majority of his career, and we will see that with the right coaching. Coaches who desire to see the best out of Cam, and not just see a physical rushing threat of a passer.

I think you have to look at more than just stats....

at Auburn Cam did often play playground ball and slung it....his great numbers where in large part bc teams couldn't handle the mismatch on the ground he presented and that set his WRs up. Maybe big play is more accurate than gunslinger.....but Newton has always been about the big knockout.

#42 CRA

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 11:09 PM

I don't think there is any question (definitely if you're asking me) that this coaching sabotaged Cam's development more than they helped. Most of Cam's development as a passer, I would say was self taught. I also give credit to Weinke, DA, and other guys Cam personally sought out to his development. However when it comes to this staff, they did little to nothing to help him. First of all, Rivera is mainly a defensive coach. Nothing he has ever said tells me he knows how to develop a QB. We already know Chud went crazy this year with the offense. So most of Cam's development was self taught and self sought.

Like I said before, Cam mostly played the game of football on his talent alone. So he was raw coming out of college. (Which is why many, including myself, questioned whether or not he could play in this league) Yet even with all that, he still put up 30 tds to 7 ints playing in the SEC. That says a whole lot about the kind of throws he does. They aren't habitually high risk, high reward throws. I'm telling yall again, this cat has a surgical degree in him! It just needs to be nutured. He needs instruction for the first time in his career, someone to help him master the basics of quarterbacking. Look at Luck and all his interceptions, is he a gunslinger? Luck probably threw more high risk balls than Cam his rookie year.

To tell you the truth, a guy like Aaron Rodgers throw a lot of home run balls. Yet the biggest difference between him and a gunslinger, is his throws are 90% accurate to the T. I see Cam being like that. Yet we need the coaching who believes he can develop in that area. Not just see him as a strong arm, high risk/reward passer, who can run.

I think Rivera does a good job managing Cam the person.....and in Cam's case I think that is big.

#43 SIGCHI222

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 11:15 PM

I think Rivera does a good job managing Cam the person.....and in Cam's case I think that is big.


I liked that comment...I think you are prolly dead on.

#44 Guest_BlueBoy_*

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 12:11 PM

While Cam sometimes overthrow in some of his short passes because of his big arm but I don't think it's an issue for this team going forward. Plus, he shows so much progress on his check downs in his last few games. We're talking about a guy that attempt 517 passes to set the rookie passing record and it required 627(asterisk?) attempts for the new record. Cam is an efficient enough QB together with all his rushing yards to put up 35/game when he get a #1 receiver.

#45 footballisasport

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 12:35 PM

I think he just needs better guard play.

Big Ben, Eli....lots of good QBs have pooty footwork.

Cam is rewriting record books. People think he should play like Brady 8 years into his career or something. Rivera and Shula seem to be good fits for Cam IMO. I think they know how to handle his development (more than the technical aspect of throwing)


Funny how no one spends so much time harping on their mechanics. I will even throw Luck into the mixs.

Only Cam is expected to be perfect at every level.

#46 Mr. Scot

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 12:49 PM

Delhomme was fine until his Tommy John surgery. After that, his arm strength got worse with each passing year. It was Delhomme's arm strength that did him in, but I would agree that Delhomme was a gambler.

Look at Newton's 2010 season with Auburn. In the SEC, he threw 30 tds to just 7 ints. Would you say that is gun slinging stats? Now Peyton in his rookie year (throwing to one of the best receivers in the history of the game), threw for a record 28 ints. Is Peyton a gun slinger? I see that same kind of fire in Newton's eyes to be the best QB in the game, to be an accurate passer. (I remember in an interview with Rachel Nichols, he commented on how his dad told him the correct way of holding the football was up high, but he later find out his dad didn't know what he was talking about. ^_^ So even in that piece, I see Cam's desire to be a fundamentally sound QB)

Again a 30 td/7 ints ratio are surgeon QB type numbers. I want to see that in Cam for the majority of his career, and we will see that with the right coaching. Coaches who desire to see the best out of Cam, and not just see a physical rushing threat of a passer.


I'd call that a college offense. And, other than some unfortunate experimentation early this season, a different system.

Gunslingers aren't the only guys who throw picks. They just happen to be the guys who take the most chances, which isn't necessarily a bad thing.

#47 fieryprophet

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 12:55 PM

I think the KC game (even though it was a loss Cam played very well) showed how far Cam has come and how he isn't as far away from his potential as some you may think. He just needs to become more consistent with time and experience.

But there were five throws in that game that really stood out to me, in order from least to most impressive:

1. On Cam's last TD to Murphy, the throw and footwork were perfect and he placed the slant on a rope exactly where it needed to be. However, he also stared Murphy down and the throw could have been much more dangerous if the linebackers that were following Cam's eyes had a split-second longer to get to where he was obviously going with the ball. But the throw itself was great, and led Murphy right into the endzone.

2. On Cam's first TD to Olsen, the line had given up pressure right up the middle and Cam literally flipped the ball twenty yards downfield without even setting his feet. What was great about it is that it was the perfect place to take that kind of risky throw because Olsen had no coverage over the top and his defender was oblivious to anything else because of how badly Olsen had burned him and was desperately trying to catch up, so if the pass was overthrown the worst that would have happened was an incomplete pass. But Olsen hauled it in and was off to the races on the kind of throw only a very few quarterbacks in the NFL could even attempt.

3. On Cam's long bomb to LaFell that should have been a touchdown, he recognized before the snap that the Chiefs were about to send a heavy blitz, stepped up to the line to shout out adjustments and then called hurriedly for the snap as the play clock was almost dead. The pass rush broke through almost immediately, and if anyone goes and looks at the All-22 video of the throw they would have to believe Cam had a psychic connection with LaFell because he starts the throw before LaFell has even made his double move on the defender, and the ball could not have been placed any more perfectly for LaFell than if Cam had handed it off to him. I hate so much that LaFell flat out dropped the ball, because it was an incredible throw made under heavy pressure.

4. On Cam's TD to Smith, he executed a fantastic pumpfake to get the defense rolling towards the right, then turns back and gives Smith a beautiful touch pass down the left sideline right into the endzone. Cam didn't even really lead into the throw, he just sort of calmly flicked it up and put it where only Smith had a shot at it, and Smitty turned on the jets and left the DB in the dust and pulled in a great catch for the score.

5. The most impressive of all of Cam's throws in this game wasn't even a potential scoring play, but on a third and long he saw Smith running an out route on the right sideline between bracket coverage, set his feet in perfect form, stepped fully into the throw, and threw a strike so absolutely on point that the underneath defender could only helplessly watch it streak over his head and fall perfectly into Smith's breadbasket. You could audibly hear Mike Martz jizz himself as he described the beauty of that pass, because many lesser quarterbacks wouldn't dream of attempting that kind of pass, much less completing it without the slightest contest from the defense.

If the Cam that showed up in the latter half of the year is a sign of what he will be in the future, then we've got the most complete package in the NFL at quarterback. Can't wait!

#48 Darth Biscuit

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 12:57 PM

Yep, Delhomme was a gambling gunslinger....was kind of silly to "fix" him with the QB coach change. Those type guys don't need to over think

To a degree, you gotta let Cam play playground ball


Good point here. Delhomme and Cam are a lot alike in that regard... not athletically but in their penchant for just making plays.

There's a golf analogy in here... take a guy like Bubba Watson for those of you that know golf... he has a horrible golf swing... it's terrible. The guy hits the ball 350 yards and won the Masters, because even though his swing is horrible, he knows how to use it. You don't fug with his swing.

Same thing with Cam... don't be screwing with his mechanics beyond the general, because you'll end up teaching him out of his "comfort zone" and he'll get all mental with his play. That is the last thing we want.

#49 Matthias

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 04:53 PM

I'd call that a college offense. And, other than some unfortunate experimentation early this season, a different system.

Gunslingers aren't the only guys who throw picks. They just happen to be the guys who take the most chances, which isn't necessarily a bad thing.


When I think of gunslingers, I think of a guy like Matthew Stafford. Anybody who have seen Stafford play, knows he pretty much just slings the ball around any way he can. I've seen him sling the ball sideways on multiple occasions, just flicking that thing out there. Is that how you see Cam being throughout his career, plus his running ability?

#50 Mr. Scot

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 04:59 PM

When I think of gunslingers, I think of a guy like Matthew Stafford. Anybody who have seen Stafford play, knows he pretty much just slings the ball around any way he can. I've seen him sling the ball sideways on multiple occasions, just flicking that thing out there. Is that how you see Cam being throughout his career, plus his running ability?


Not the definition of a gunslinger.

A gunslinger QB is one that takes more chances than others might. He's a gambler by nature, mostly because he believes strongly in his ability to get the ball to his guy even if it looks like he's covered.

Tell me that's not Newton.


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