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Is Cam just a bad read option QB?


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#16 MadHatter

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 07:41 AM

So why have Brady, Peyton etc gone on decade long runs, with the almighty tape in the hands of defenses?


go back and check out what Miami did with the Wildcat.

Something very different than what teams were accustomed to seeing. They were VERY successful in running it for ONE season. Once teams figured it out....they shut it down.

Go back and watch the 1996 Panthers Defense. Dom Capers was running an exotic defensive scheme (gimmick). It was VERY successful until GB showed how to play it. Then it was shut down.

Gimmick offenses and defenses (something no one has seen before) are usually VERY short lived in the NFL. Teams figure them out and they are basically shut down.

#17 top dawg

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 07:42 AM

If you drink too much, then the alcohol loses its effectiveness.

Even sex gets old if you're doing it three times a day, 24:7.

#18 Awesomeness!

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 07:43 AM

go back and check out what Miami did with the Wildcat.

Something very different than what teams were accustomed to seeing. They were VERY successful in running it for ONE season. Once teams figured it out....they shut it down.

Go back and watch the 1996 Panthers Defense. Dom Capers was running an exotic defensive scheme (gimmick). It was VERY successful until GB showed how to play it. Then it was shut down.

Gimmick offenses and defenses (something no one has seen before) are usually VERY short lived in the NFL. Teams figure them out and they are basically shut down.


Ok fair enough, but my question was why was it shut down HERE, and nowhere else. It worked for everybody else, except us. Even for a guy without a knee.

#19 Inimicus

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 07:52 AM

Because its not exactly the same everywhere. Cam and RGIII don't execute the plays identically and have different tendencies that have to be studied.

#20 Kurb

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 08:27 AM

Run Option works here.
It's one of our more productive plays (yards/snap).

It's the other peices that don't work, that leads to the Read Option hate, b/c God forbid we mention DWill runs like a pussy for 75% of his plays this season.

#21 Keith Moons Liver

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 08:29 AM

Ok fair enough, but my question was why was it shut down HERE, and nowhere else. It worked for everybody else, except us. Even for a guy without a knee.

It's not like it never works for us and it's not like it works perfectly for everyone else.

#22 Thorrez

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 08:37 AM

Why it is not working?

1. The main asset to the read option is the you really can expose one bad defender by running it at him. Great in collage as there are plenty of those even on good teams. Not great in NFL as even the worst guys opposing you are still solid football players (except of course injury situations like when we had to start Hayden at NT).

2. Cam took dives instead of hits. This is a good thing as it prevents him from getting hurt, but had he played like a rb he would have about 2 extra yards every carry just by falling forwards (plus he would break one every know and then). 2nd and 6-7 and 2nd and 4-5 is a huge difference.

3. It is kind of a hit or miss offense. You do not expect 4 yards every time, you will have no gains or losses every now and then. But you always have the home run threat. This is again great in collage as if you qp gets in the clear behind the linebackers he could very well be the fastest guy on the field and just simply outrun the safties. In the NFL this is much harder so even the very successfull runs will, if the defensive back field does its job, stay at 15-25 yard gains.

4. Our O-line is not good enough blocking (power runs are not working any better)

One of the reasons the works better for Washington is the RGIII is not worried about getting hit and gets the extra tough yards. Well, it is proven that was not smart so he will play more like Cam next year and lose rushing average in the process.

There is probably more, but this is my take.

#23 googoodan

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 08:41 AM

Marshawn Lynch
Alfred Morris
Frank Gore

That's why it works other places.

Also, we ran it more in one quarter vs the Seahawks than the Seahawks ran it all year.

#24 rayzor

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 08:45 AM

the read option is nothing more than another running play, except instead of just handing the ball off to just one guy regardless of how the defense is set up or what they're doing, the QB reads the D and sees if he or the RB would have more success. thats it.

people make it out to be a bigger deal than what it is. it's not the read option thats the problem.

the reason it hasn't been working isn't because its a "college" play.

ask yourself why any running play doesn't work. predominantly there are two answers.
1) they know you're going to run it and/or
2) you don't have the ability to run it well

for some reason the panther run game has always taken nearly half the season to get going solid. it always takes several weeks for the OL to gel. the first half of this season when we ran the read option the most was during a period in the season that we don't run the ball well anyway. to make if worse, if you don't have an oline prepared or able to adjust quickly to block for who has the ball, you're in trouble. this OL just wasn't ready or able to block for it....just like every year. being a newer mindset/dimension to the blocking scheme didn't help at all.

then there's the predictability. chud didn't run it well. he tried marrying the coryell passing game with the read option run game. when you want to pass, get in one of the usual coryell formations. when you want to run, you get in one of the usual read option formations. see a problem? the defense knew what we were going to do by how we lined up. and we never adjusted. the spirit of jeff davidson possessed chud's body.

to correct it...for starters get the OL gelling and ready earlier. they take it way to easy in the offseason. they don't get nearly enough reps together as a unit because usually they're always dicking around with personnel shifts.

and then, frikkin mix up what you do. run the ball out of non- read option formations and rjn other plays out of read option formations....play action, bubble screens, etc. will all work out of it. and add i more pistol formations. quit drawing an obvious line between your running game and your passing game. try disguising what you do because you're sure not good enough to just impose your will on others even if they know what you're gonna do.

be prepared and be confusing. don't fear the read option. fear being unprepared and predictable.

#25 BelgianPantherFan

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 08:51 AM

go back and check out what Miami did with the Wildcat.

Something very different than what teams were accustomed to seeing. They were VERY successful in running it for ONE season. Once teams figured it out....they shut it down.

Go back and watch the 1996 Panthers Defense. Dom Capers was running an exotic defensive scheme (gimmick). It was VERY successful until GB showed how to play it. Then it was shut down.

Gimmick offenses and defenses (something no one has seen before) are usually VERY short lived in the NFL. Teams figure them out and they are basically shut down.


2012: Chud's offence was shut down after 3 plays.

#26 rayzor

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 08:59 AM

3. It is kind of a hit or miss offense. You do not expect 4 yards every time, you will have no gains or losses every now and then. But you always have the home run threat. This is again great in collage as if you qp gets in the clear behind the linebackers he could very well be the fastest guy on the field and just simply outrun the safties. In the NFL this is much harder so even the very successfull runs will, if the defensive back field does its job, stay at 15-25 yard gains.

great post. I'd like to build on that part i quoted. one of the things tbat makes Kelly's offense so good is its built with the understanding that if you run it well enough and often enough, the defense is going to go all out to try and stop it, and they usually do.

kelly said they end up with more negative yardage than anyone else because they run it so often and the defense counters it by overloading the box, and that's exactly what kelly wants them to do. the rest of the game kelly makes the defense think they are running it, but then mix up what they do, exploiting those areas that the defense left exposed trying to stop their run game. that's where the more traditional elements of their offense comes out and kills the other team.

if you're gonna run it, understand that the defense is going to throw everything they have to stop it and then use that effort of theirs against them.

#27 L-TownCat

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 09:14 AM

So why have Brady, Peyton etc gone on decade long runs, with the almighty tape in the hands of defenses?


Ummm, because they are Tom Brady and Peyton fuggin Manning. No one and I repeat no one at that position has played QB the way those two have done it. There is absolutely no comparison.

Montana, Kelly, Marino, and Favre were all great, but those two guys are on a different planet with their skill and command of an NFL offense.

#28 MadHatter

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 09:39 AM

Ok fair enough, but my question was why was it shut down HERE, and nowhere else. It worked for everybody else, except us. Even for a guy without a knee.


Washington was not running the same RO scheme....theirs was from multiple looks and out of the pistol formations.

#29 Zod

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 09:42 AM

I wish we would just start treating Cam like the prototype pocket passer he physically is. Why do we need a run option at all?

#30 fieryprophet

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 09:50 AM

1. Lack of consistent running threat.

2. Using read option as base offense.

3. Terrible offensive line.

And Cam still ended up with 741 yards and 8 TDs rushing. Yeah, real bad read option QB we have. . .


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