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Will Chud let Cam play QB next season?


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#16 mwright350

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 12:44 PM

So then read option is simply asking the QB to do more, make the call whereas a standard 'pro style' offense involves the OC calling the play and the QB sticking by that?

That's how I understood it - but does read option also involve the QB rushing more often? Presumably if they're unable to pick the play they're left with little option but to rush or be sacked or throw a silly int? I can't recall the game but I recall Cam throwing a rushed pass earlier in teh season that was easily picked and returned for a TD - a sign of poor utilisation of Read Option?


Put simply the option lets the QB key off of an indicator on the defense and make a decision on what to do with the ball based on what that defender is doing after the ball is snapped. For example the QB and a RB stretching left and the QB will either pitch to the RB or keep based on what he sees. On inside runs you see it where the QB puts the ball in the RB's belly then either lets him have it or pulls it back.

Yes running the option as your base offense requires the QB to run more and yes it puts them in harm's way more.

It does not work as well in the NFL as in college, for anything but a wrinkle to add to a traditional offense, because the defensive players in the NFL are bigger, faster, and generally smarter (in terms of football smarts).

#17 Marguide

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 12:55 PM

Could somebody explain to me what changed at around week 10 to make us a better attacking team? I've read it was to do with dropping the read option as often but what does read option mean exactly?


The read option is just a specific type of running play. If you have any of our games saved, go back and look at some of the running plays. You can spot the read option as follows:

1) The QB is lined up in the shotgun. That is, he is 5 yards or more behind the center at the time of the snap.
2) In a conventional shotgun running play, the QB hands the ball off to the back without evaluating the position of defensive players at that moment in time.
3) In the read option, the QB and RB both have their hands on the ball for a second while the QB looks to see how the defense is reacting. Depending on what he sees, he will either keep the ball or let the RB have it.

As mrwright said above, there are variations on the basic play, including more traditional option plays involving pitching the ball to the back off to one side, or even triple options in which 1 of 3 players are options to carry the ball.

In general, read option plays are a bit slower developing compared to conventional runs, and that can cause problems with a defense that reacts quickly.

#18 rayzor

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 01:46 PM

So then read option is simply asking the QB to do more, make the call whereas a standard 'pro style' offense involves the OC calling the play and the QB sticking by that?

That's how I understood it - but does read option also involve the QB rushing more often? Presumably if they're unable to pick the play they're left with little option but to rush or be sacked or throw a silly int? I can't recall the game but I recall Cam throwing a rushed pass earlier in teh season that was easily picked and returned for a TD - a sign of poor utilisation of Read Option?

Was the Broncos fixture one of the games where we adopted the heavily read option style? I'm sure it was around week 9/10 and Cam got nailed by the Broncos pass rushers - that wasn't nice to watch!

the problem wasn't the read option. the read option is just another running scheme/play that instead of just one ball carrier, the QB has a choice of two (or more), one of them being himself. the read option doesn't give a QB more control than a typical pro style offense. that all depends on the coaching staff and how much responsibility they feel the QB is capable of taking on for running the show.

the problem was that chud eliminated a lot of the playbook, took away a lot of the versatility from the year before, and took away cam's ability to make decisions/mistakes on the play call. it was supposed to free him from the responsibility of having to diagnose defenses much and change the play call at the line.

chud made a list of the plays that had the most success the year before (read option runs and big downfield passing plays) and made that the base of the offense and cut back on the things that were less successful. kind of the pareto principle or 80/20 rule where you notice that 80% of the effects come from 20% of the work (as a rule of thumb) and so as a way to capitalize on that and focus more energy on what was having the most success and cut back on or eliminate the stuff you were doing 80% of the time with little success. while that might be a valid approach in most areas of productivity, in this offense it just made the offense more predictable instead of making it more efficient. it took away variety that was needed to make the offense less predictable.

i think that when chud gave cam more freedom to make plays and mistakes it opened up him and the offense as a whole. it focused less on those things that chud thought should be working and more on those things that were working and gave cam an increased ability to just play instead of being so controlled. the stuff that cam and rivera were putting too much on his plate wasn't responsibility, imo. they were force-feeding him and limiting what he could eat at the same time. it was a steady diet of just a couple things rather than giving him more choices and eat what he wanted or suited him.

at least that's my take on it. i'm probably wrong.

#19 rayzor

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 01:54 PM

The read option is just a specific type of running play. If you have any of our games saved, go back and look at some of the running plays. You can spot the read option as follows:

1) The QB is lined up in the shotgun. That is, he is 5 yards or more behind the center at the time of the snap.
2) In a conventional shotgun running play, the QB hands the ball off to the back without evaluating the position of defensive players at that moment in time.
3) In the read option, the QB and RB both have their hands on the ball for a second while the QB looks to see how the defense is reacting. Depending on what he sees, he will either keep the ball or let the RB have it.

As mrwright said above, there are variations on the basic play, including more traditional option plays involving pitching the ball to the back off to one side, or even triple options in which 1 of 3 players are options to carry the ball.

In general, read option plays are a bit slower developing compared to conventional runs, and that can cause problems with a defense that reacts quickly.

excellent description of what is going on.

the added time on running plays didn't help a struggling OL. there was also the problem with the passing plays taking way too long to develop since we were intent on trying to make big plays happen more than anyone else. i think this was yet another thing chud was most proud of and tried to make even more impressive by doing it more.

both things made us relatively easy to defend because since everything took so long to happen, defenses could overload the box and we just couldn't do much with it. it took way too much pressure on cam and put way too much on him to try and keep plays alive.

#20 Marguide

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 02:39 PM

excellent description of what is going on.

the added time on running plays didn't help a struggling OL. there was also the problem with the passing plays taking way too long to develop since we were intent on trying to make big plays happen more than anyone else. i think this was yet another thing chud was most proud of and tried to make even more impressive by doing it more.

both things made us relatively easy to defend because since everything took so long to happen, defenses could overload the box and we just couldn't do much with it. it took way too much pressure on cam and put way too much on him to try and keep plays alive.


That is so true and it pisses me off to this day. Early in the season, Chud tried to lean on the read option along with slow developing mid to deep passing routes. To make matters worse, he often did it while leaving a minimum number of blockers on the line of scrimmage or in the backfield. Everything developed so slowly that good defenses just blew it up, and that idiot wouldn't change until we were already out of contention.

People b!tch about Rivera and his decisions. The only decision I second guess Rivera on is not smacking Chud in the head with a ball peen hammer to try to knock some sense into him early in the season. In my opinion, Chud's play calling is the primary reason we didn't make the playoffs this year.

#21 mwright350

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 02:43 PM

That is so true and it pisses me off to this day. Early in the season, Chud tried to lean on the read option along with slow developing mid to deep passing routes. To make matters worse, he often did it while leaving a minimum number of blockers on the line of scrimmage or in the backfield. Everything developed so slowly that good defenses just blew it up, and that idiot wouldn't change until we were already out of contention.

People b!tch about Rivera and his decisions. The only decision I second guess Rivera on is not smacking Chud in the head with a ball peen hammer to try to knock some sense into him early in the season. In my opinion, Chud's play calling is the primary reason we didn't make the playoffs this year.


That's kinda his most damning decision though isn't it? Failure for the head coach to control his staff is pretty annoying. Someone should have jerked a knot in Chud's ass really early on.

Fixing that earlier changes a whole lot about our season IMO.

#22 rayzor

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 03:06 PM

That's kinda his most damning decision though isn't it? Failure for the head coach to control his staff is pretty annoying. Someone should have jerked a knot in Chud's ass really early on.

Fixing that earlier changes a whole lot about our season IMO.

well that and the playcalling at the end of the game. too much old school mentality and trusting your defense in an era that is very deep ball passing game friendly where the rules are concerned.

you can't trust your defense to keep the offense from getting in scoring or FG position. the only safe place for the ball to be is in your offenses hands. and no lead/score is safe until the clock hits :00.

#23 jgraham

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 05:05 AM

Thanks to everybody for the info!

A lot of it now makes more sense and helps explain some of the issues we had for me.


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