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#46 Bronn

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 09:06 AM

I don't even own a Confederate flag. But if I did and wanted to fly it, it would be to primarily celebrate my ancestors (non-slaveholding) that fought against an overly oppressive government that wanted to force them into submission for political gain.

Hell, I don't even hold a whole lot of neo-confederate views. Gun ownership is probably about the only one I can think of other than the desire to be independent from the Empire.

I'm anti-religion and all associated legislation (like moral laws), pro-choice, pro-racial equality, pro-immigration, etc. etc. etc.

But I'm a bad guy somehow because I think people have a right to honor people that fought and died for at least a few of the tenets that I still believe in today.

Somehow I should be ashamed and crawl under a rock because SOME of the rich white-folk of the era had a vested interest in preserving the slavery that drove their personal economy.

The same fuging thing happens to day. But let's be outraged at someone flying a flag.

#47 googoodan

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 09:53 AM

I don't even own a Confederate flag. But if I did and wanted to fly it, it would be to primarily celebrate my ancestors (non-slaveholding) that fought against an overly oppressive government that wanted to force them into submission for political gain.

Hell, I don't even hold a whole lot of neo-confederate views. Gun ownership is probably about the only one I can think of other than the desire to be independent from the Empire.

I'm anti-religion and all associated legislation (like moral laws), pro-choice, pro-racial equality, pro-immigration, etc. etc. etc.

But I'm a bad guy somehow because I think people have a right to honor people that fought and died for at least a few of the tenets that I still believe in today.

Somehow I should be ashamed and crawl under a rock because SOME of the rich white-folk of the era had a vested interest in preserving the slavery that drove their personal economy.

The same fuging thing happens to day. But let's be outraged at someone flying a flag.


Flying the flag means you desire to go back in time to solve our nation's "black problem". I don't care what you say. Never challenge my overly simplistic worldview.

#48 boostownsme

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 10:25 AM

Really because I don't really know how to define a modern celebration of Nazi Confederate culture, other than the obvious open racism/feeling of racial superiority and far far right views.

I don't consider racism/feeling racially superior and having one-sided views a heritage.


Comparing Nazism to the Confederacy is dumb, as is calling everyone who flies or respects the "heritage" of the Confederate battle flag a racist. A very small percentage of Southerners actually owned slaves, while the majority fought during the war for, here it comes, States Rights.

#49 Delhommey

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 03:13 PM

Comparing Nazism to the Confederacy is dumb, as is calling everyone who flies or respects the "heritage" of the Confederate battle flag a racist. A very small percentage of Southerners actually owned slaves, while the majority fought during the war for, here it comes, States Rights.


Well if boostownsme says it, it must be true.

#50 Bronn

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 03:26 PM

Well if boostownsme Delhommey says it, it must be true.

#51 Delhommey

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 03:52 PM

I've referenced primary documents.

#52 GOOGLE RON PAUL

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 03:01 AM

lol okay...

I didn't know Confederates were responsible for the systematic genocide of millions upon millions of people based solely on their race... but nice try...

Somehow I knew you were going to go there, and you're being terribly naive... or at the very least, ignorant...


the confederate states went to war over slavery (see: the confederate states constitution). i mean i guess if you want to weigh slavery against genocide on the Scale of Bad Things then whatevs, but i don't really care to draw a line between the two. why is it different for you to celebrate "non slave holding members of the confederate army" than for someone else to celebrate, say, a nazi who never actually pulled the trigger on a victim of the holocaust? i get the impression that you think nazis were complicit with every atrocity perpetuated by their government, simply by being nazis, but confederate soldiers somehow weren't

#53 GOOGLE RON PAUL

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 03:08 AM

this article makes me laugh because their "top five causes of the civil war" are actually just their "top five ways of saying slavery was the cause of the civil war"

http://americanhisto...e_civil_war.htm

1. Economic and social differences between the North and the South.
With Eli Whitney's invention of the cotton gin in 1793, cotton became very profitable. This machine was able to reduce the time it took to separate seeds from the cotton. However, at the same time the increase in the number of plantations willing to move from other crops to cotton meant the greater need for a large amount of cheap labor, i.e. slaves. Thus, the southern economy became a one crop economy, depending on cotton and therefore on slavery. On the other hand, the northern economy was based more on industry than agriculture. In fact, the northern industries were purchasing the raw cotton and turning it into finished goods. This disparity between the two set up a major difference in economic attitudes. The South was based on the plantation system while the North was focused on city life. This change in the North meant that society evolved as people of different cultures and classes had to work together. On the other hand, the South continued to hold onto an antiquated social order.
2. States versus federal rights.
Since the time of the Revolution, two camps emerged: those arguing for greater states rights and those arguing that the federal government needed to have more control. The first organized government in the US after the American Revolution was under the Articles of Confederation. The thirteen states formed a loose confederation with a very weak federal government. However, when problems arose, the weakness of this form of government caused the leaders of the time to come together at the Constitutional Convention and create, in secret, the US Constitution. Strong proponents of states rights like Thomas Jefferson and Patrick Henry were not present at this meeting. Many felt that the new constitution ignored the rights of states to continue to act independently. They felt that the states should still have the right to decide if they were willing to accept certain federal acts. This resulted in the idea of nullification, whereby the states would have the right to rule federal acts unconstitutional. The federal government denied states this right. However, proponents such as John C. Calhoun fought vehemently for nullification. When nullification would not work and states felt that they were no longer respected, they moved towards secession.
3. The fight between Slave and Non-Slave State Proponents.
As America began to expand, first with the lands gained from the Louisiana Purchase and later with the Mexican War, the question of whether new states admitted to the union would be slave or free. The Missouri Compromise passed in 1820 made a rule that prohibited slavery in states from the former Louisiana Purchase the latitude 36 degrees 30 minutes north except in Missouri. During the Mexican War, conflict started about what would happen with the new territories that the US expected to gain upon victory. David Wilmot proposed the Wilmot Proviso in 1846 which would ban slavery in the new lands. However, this was shot down to much debate. The Compromise of 1850 was created by Henry Clay and others to deal with the balance between slave and free states, northern and southern interests. One of the provisions was the fugitive slave act that was discussed in number one above. Another issue that further increased tensions was the Kansas-Nebraska Act of 1854. It created two new territories that would allow the states to use popular sovereignty to determine whether they would be free or slave. The real issue occurred in Kansas where proslavery Missourians began to pour into the state to help force it to be slave. They were called "Border Ruffians." Problems came to a head in violence at Lawrence Kansas. The fighting that occurred caused it to be called "Bleeding Kansas." The fight even erupted on the floor of the senate when antislavery proponent Charles Sumner was beat over the head by South Carolina's Senator Preston Brooks.
4. Growth of the Abolition Movement.
Increasingly, the northerners became more polarized against slavery. Sympathies began to grow for abolitionists and against slavery and slaveholders. This occurred especially after some major events including: the publishing of Harriet Beecher Stowe's Uncle Tom's Cabin, the Dred Scott Case, John Brown's Raid, and the passage of the fugitive slave act that held individuals responsible for harboring fugitive slaves even if they were located in non-slave states.
5. The election of Abraham Lincoln.
Even though things were already coming to a head, when Lincoln was elected in 1860, South Carolina issued its "Declaration of the Causes of Secession." They believed that Lincoln was anti-slavery and in favor of Northern interests. Before Lincoln was even president, seven states had seceded from the Union: South Carolina, Mississippi, Florida, Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, and Texas.



#54 YourMomsLover

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 09:52 PM

so i've spent some time in rural nc over the past few weeks and i've encountered relics of the past that appear to be displays of explicit support for a foreign government guilty of perpetuating a hateful institution. however, some people are quick to say that flying the flag of a hateful regime is really a display of "heritage," rather than "hate"; that it is a nod to one's forefathers, rather than the countless lives destroyed. my question is as follows: is it reasonable to display a nazi flag while distancing oneself from the atrocities commonly associated with nazism?

Posted Image

oh and i guess you can talk about the confederacy too


Cantrell.....come on bro. You can do better. Placing Nazis and Confederates in the same sentence?

#55 YourMomsLover

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 09:56 PM

usually waved around by idiots that are attention whoring more than anything. it basically means PLEASE DEBATE ME OVER STUPID SHÏT. subtle racism is some kind of cute game to them.

inb4ihaveblackfriends
inb4thewarwasn'taboutslavery


Let me put "Shiek Zula" in the same class as "King Taharqa"

Boils down to nothing but a race baiting bitch. Hence both usernames.

My new name will be "Nathan Bedford Forrest"

#56 CatofWar

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 10:11 PM

oh god

#57 Bronn

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 12:53 AM

FML YML is here to ruin any further arguments I might have had by default

#58 Bronn

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 12:56 AM

all we need now is TbTerror to tell us about how we're all heathens for not flying the Christian flag and that it's okay because Jesus died for all of us even those slave owning confederates and Jew roasting Nazis because he just allowed them to live in the first place because, well, hey man you have to know the devil before you can know your lord and savior...

#59 SmootsDaddy89

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 01:14 AM

Don't worry guys I'm sure he's a liberal plant.

#60 SZ James (banned)

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 01:23 AM

what about my username?


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