156 replies to this topic

[beastson52]

Okay...look at that same window minus the game against the worst D in the NFL history. 3.4 yards per carry....that ain't killin it.

He isn't the 2008 Williams. Some think bc we don't run a power run game that it is the only reason we don't see that guy....the 2008 guy would of hit holes quicker and not be brought down with relative ease

He might not be the same guy from 2008 but he's still relatively fresh compared to RB's his age. Seems stwewart has taken more wear and tear than Williams just because he's the bruiser.

I for one want to keep Double Trouble intact at least for one more year. Maybe there true potential shines in 2013 ( that's if chud doesn't go full retard mode again)

[CRA]

you cab buy that all you want but lefell put up similar numbers as des his rookie year with clausen. So you can believe that hoopla Rivera spouts as his excuse for bringing in legs. He just fired an assistant coach to cover his ass, Rivera always has an excuse for why he does things instead of manning up. Phuck Ron.

Even 89 admitted Legatron had to help them early on....with no offseason and a rookie QB...someone had to be in the huddle that had the new offense down.

Rivera IMO has manned up and admitted he is a green HC learning. We need to see who he brings in...bc it very well could be like the secondary coach. Meeks was a body simply until someone he wanted was available. He had ties to players so he made a good bandaid. That could easily be said about the WR coach. His ideal guys might not of been available....a good bandaid could be someone 89 at least is familiar with until he gets who he wants

[panthers55]

And if he doesn't hold up.....we have Cam, Tolbert, and cheap RB to get us through those couple games he misses......and that trio would be more fearsome than most attacks. We can get through small stretches with that and be fine.

OL play was so bad this year....it probably is unfair to nitpick any RB too heavily. I don't think any RB was as bad as they looked. That is where we need to focus....not on how good our backup to whoever are technical #1 RB is.

Think with the new GM he will sort the RB situation out. maybe not how I see it but he will find a way to change the look of it. I am more worried now about our OL and think I will spend my time not debating this old RB debate any longer.

Counting Newton as a running back and assuming he could carry the ball and take some of Williams carries is just ridiculous. Tolbert never ran the ball more than 11 times in a game for us and most were in the red zone. So to assume that Stewart could pick up the load ignores the fact he has never really handled the load. Even when Williams was on IR in 2010, he had only 2 games with more than 20 carries. And that was with Fox running all day with no quarterback. In fact those 2 games were the only 2 games of 20 or more carries all year. And that year we had a good OL.

In fact he has only had 5 games of more than 20 carries in his 5 year career. Three in 2009 and 2 in 2010. None in 2008, 2011 and 2012.

[CRA]

He might not be the same guy from 2008 but he's still relatively fresh compared to RB's his age. Seems stwewart has taken more wear and tear than Williams just because he's the bruiser.

I for one want to keep Double Trouble intact at least for one more year. Maybe there true potential shines in 2013 ( that's if chud doesn't go full retard mode again)

Well agree Stewart's style and history don't point to a long career.....I also don't think Williams has this low mileage people like to tout. if we drafted a RB tomorrow, he would come into the NFL with likely half the college workload on his body Williams had.

But again, how I feel about Williams largely depends on what is going on around him. That isn't how everyone views it

[panthers55]

Don't get me wrong, I wish we could find a way to keep DWill, as I don't trust only having Stew and Tolbert. That formula to me says Cam will probably continue to be our leading rusher, unless someone like the guy called up from the practice squad (#36, can't remember his name) really comes on to supplement Stew.

But I'm trying to look at it objectively and from the standpoint of a team that has more needs than it can fill in 1 draft, and in a year in which cap dollars are going to be at a premium. Given the choice between going with Stew, Tolbert and maybe #36 along with a nice safety or RG in FA, or no safety/RG, but we have DWill added to the mix, I think I would take the former.

And as to savings, yeah, you've already spent the money to buy the car, but you are going to have to spend a lot more if you want to keep it running, and you have a newer car sitting in the garage. Oh, and the roof needs fixing by the way.

The problem is that Rivera has to win in 2013 or he is gone. Why count on Stewart who is unreliable and can't handle the load, Tolbert who is really a short yardage guy, and risk hurting Cam who has shown he is human and can be hurt when you really can't afford not having a running game. Do we want to just use any guy or make sure we have a dynamic running game to help Newton.

One thing to note is that Tolbert is due a 1.5 million option bonus this Spring with the cap being tight we might cut him.

[CRA]

Counting Newton as a running back and assuming he could carry the ball and take some of Williams carries is just ridiculous. Tolbert never ran the ball more than 11 times in a game for us and most were in the red zone. So to assume that Stewart could pick up the load ignores the fact he has never really handled the load. Even when Williams was on IR in 2010, he had only 2 games with more than 20 carries. And that was with Fox running all day with no quarterback. In fact those 2 games were the only 2 games of 20 or more carries all year. And that year we had a good OL.

In fact he has only had 5 games of more than 20 yards inn his 5 year career. Three in 2009 and 2 in 2010. None in 2008, 2011 and 2012.

I am counting him as part of the rushing attack.

Considering he has accounted for 32% of our rushing yardage and 46% of our rushing TDs under Rivera.....yeah, he is a factor. yes, it should be assumed Newton will account for about 25% of our rush attempts next year (which would be down for him).

Mike Tolbert rushed the ball 303 times his two years prior to coming here. Which was more than Williams and only 17 less than Stewart in the same window. So yes, Tolbert has proven he can carry a much larger workload than he had last year in Carolina.

And again, no one would carry the load.....they all are parts of the rush attack. Adrian Peterson carries the load.....On a Cam, Tolbert, Stewart, Cheap RB team that Chud calls....no one has to be able to carry the load. There aren't that many carries to go around...I think those runners can handle 8 carries a game, per person.....and all hold up pretty well. If one goes down....they can all take 1-2 more carries for a week.

[ThunderKatt]

I am counting him as part of the rushing attack.

Considering he has accounted for 32% of our rushing yardage and 46% of our rushing TDs under Rivera.....yeah, he is a factor. yes, it should be assumed Newton will account for about 25% of our rush attempts next year (which would be down for him).

Mike Tolbert rushed the ball 303 times his two years prior to coming here. Which was more than Williams and only 17 less than Stewart in the same window. So yes, Tolbert has proven he can carry a much larger workload than he had last year in Carolina.

And again, no one would carry the load.....they all are parts of the rush attack. Adrian Peterson carries the load.....On a Cam, Tolbert, Stewart, Cheap RB team that Chud calls....no one has to be able to carry the load. There aren't that many carries to go around...I think those runners can handle 8 carries a game, per person.....and all hold up pretty well. If one goes down....they can all take 1-2 more carries for a week.

we are not Denver or the patriots so for you to think 8.carries for a running back is going to win us games proves that you are nuts.


Amos before I laugh myself to sleep from this, you are willing to lay Stewart his contract for 8 carries, lol? What's that's $100k per carry?

[iamhubby1]

Williams is a homerun hitter. He may not be here next year, but it is not easy to just replace a homerun hitter.

Stewy is fine, nothing special, but better than average.When healthy. Tolbert is helpful. That is just not a combo I would be happy with.

Find the money to keep DWill and we have the homerun threat people fear. Also, he has improved greatly with the screen play. That is a big part of our game. Stewy is fine and all, but DWill is explosive.

Lastly. DWill still has the speed to be a threat. Folks need to quit with the bashing. He is worth having as a feature back. Too bad we probably cannot afford him.

[beastson52]

Well agree Stewart's style and history don't point to a long career.....I also don't think Williams has this low mileage people like to tout. if we drafted a RB tomorrow, he would come into the NFL with likely half the college workload on his body Williams had.

But again, how I feel about Williams largely depends on what is going on around him. That isn't how everyone views it

True, Williams was the work horse in Memphis. At this point though, Williams has a higher percentage to finish a complete NFL season compared to Stewart and I think thats the most important thing (numbers never lie). No point having a great young RB that is never on the field.

As far as drafting a new RB i think its tougher than the average fan makes it seem.But for some reason people always assume its easy to find a quality RB in the first round. For every AP that's been drafted you have your Ryan Mathews, Mark Ingrams, etc....

[bleys]

Not to bash on my team's players, but what exactly has Stewart done that makes so many people think he is the better of the two? He has had one good year and I don't think he has ever stayed healthy throughout a full season (even the year he had 1,100 yards I think he missed most if not all of the preseason).

If we traded someone I would trade Stewart because he has probably more value because of his age. RBs are a dime a dozen, we can get an even younger back up to Williams and groom him to take over whenever we part ways with Williams.

Point being, just because Stewart is younger doesn't mean he has to be the answer to who we turn the ball over to.

he has been healthy every year but this year and only missed 2 games prior to this year. People keep saying this while completely ignoring DWill is that guy.

[panthers55]

I am counting him as part of the rushing attack.

Considering he has accounted for 32% of our rushing yardage and 46% of our rushing TDs under Rivera.....yeah, he is a factor. yes, it should be assumed Newton will account for about 25% of our rush attempts next year (which would be down for him).

Mike Tolbert rushed the ball 303 times his two years prior to coming here. Which was more than Williams and only 17 less than Stewart in the same window. So yes, Tolbert has proven he can carry a much larger workload than he had last year in Carolina.

And again, no one would carry the load.....they all are parts of the rush attack. Adrian Peterson carries the load.....On a Cam, Tolbert, Stewart, Cheap RB team that Chud calls....no one has to be able to carry the load. There aren't that many carries to go around...I think those runners can handle 8 carries a game, per person.....and all hold up pretty well

You are all over the place using all kind of mixed stats from different teams to make your case. Lets look at Newton. First of all running on a designed carry is not the same as running to avoid a sack. Both are not part of the running game just designed runs. He had 4 games where he ran more than 10 times and not all of those were designed runs. So really you can only count on 5-8 designed runs by Newton. Stewart has had issues running very often and even with Stewart out, Tolbert got around 8-10 carries. Just because Tolbert ran a lot in San Diego doesn't mean he will do the same here. He surely didn't look much like the guy in San Diego last year. He couldn't catch a cold for us and his running wasn't exactly elusive. BTW, of all these cheap running backs, which has worked out over the years?? Goodson? Sutton??

All I can say is if I had to win in 2013 and I had to have a running game. I surely wouldn't do it your way.

[panthers55]

he has been healthy every year but this year and only missed 2 games prior to this year. People keep saying this while completely ignoring DWill is that guy.

Stewart missed games even when he has been lightly used. If he gets double the carries he won't last 8 games.

[bleys]

Stewart missed games even when he has been lightly used. If he gets double the carries he won't last 8 games.

yet to be seen, but what we have seen, prior to this year, 2 games missed.


what we can also include are the statements made like DWill/Tolbert would be a much better option since the same can be said for DWill's actual injury history over the years..

[bleys]

You are all over the place using all kind of mixed stats from different teams to make your case. Lets look at Newton. First of all running on a designed carry is not the same as running to avoid a sack. Both are not part of the running game just designed runs. He had 4 games where he ran more than 10 times and not all of those were designed runs. So really you can only count on 5-8 designed runs by Newton. Stewart has had issues running very often and even with Stewart out, Tolbert got around 8-10 carries. Just because Tolbert ran a lot in San Diego doesn't mean he will do the same here. He surely didn't look much like the guy in San Diego last year. He couldn't catch a cold for us and his running wasn't exactly elusive. BTW, of all these cheap running backs, which has worked out over the years?? Goodson? Sutton??

All I can say is if I had to win in 2013 and I had to have a running game. I surely wouldn't do it your way.

I've skipped most of this thread because I know how the rest of it was going to continue after page 3 or 4.. however, I have to say Goodson, aside from his fumbles, was a legit RB.. It's a shame that didn't work out..

[Cpt slay a ho]

as far as age goes T.O. proved to me that some athletes bodies don't age as fast as others i like stew but he is on the injury prone side, but to be honest the value of both stew and d will have dropped post delhome era, it's just a new philosophy that will not allow even AP to get over a 1000 yards. the bottom line is both rb's still can ball i hate to say it but with cam here neither will ever have 1000 yard seasons