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WE (K)NEED 1st ROUND TALENT ON OUR O LINE. period

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Posted

I would love Warmack. However...

Gettlemen made a very interesting statement. He said the free agent market is pretty good because the cap is flat--money is limited. He also mentioned one-year contracts. Would he find the shopping cheaper in free agency for Guards or for CBs or WRs? In the draft, the players are paid based on where they are drafted. In free agency, positions have their own pay range. I think we will have a litte room in free agency after we make some moves.

Gettlemen also described the core of a winning team: QB, touchdown makers, and pass rush. (He then mentioned big guys). I think we have a QB, we have pass rushers (so did the Giants when they tool Pierre-Paul), so that leaves TD makers and big guys. What does a G cost in free agency? What about a WR?

I think we are more likely to draft a WR early and a G later, based on this one-sided logic. We need depth at G, so you take one in the fourth round and sign a vet to a one-year contract. If you draft Warmack, then sign a WR late to play behind a one-year contract free agent, the free agent costs more and the fourth rounder probably has less of a chance of starting. Whew. This is complex!

Again, I would LOVE Warmack and I think a RG is our biggest need. However.....

Lets do this in Salary formulas:

The Draft

WR (or CB) salary = G salary; Guards taken in the middle rounds are more successful than WRs (or CBs) taken in the middle rounds.

Free Agency

WR (or CB) salary > G salary

THEREFORE, smart money drafts the skill players and finds the RG later in the draft (supported by 1-year contract veteran).

These are not your Hurney's Panthers anymore.

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Posted

Was Carl Nicks a first rounder?? He was a fifth rounder. If Gettleman is as good as they say he is, we can get first rounder performance in the 3rd or 4th round.

Nobody says later round picks can't be successful. They're normally 2-3 year projects. First round talent are ready to contribute day one. That's why their money is garanteed. WE NEED TO MAKE THE PLAYOFFS NOW! Not in 2-3 years.

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Posted

I would love Warmack. However...

Gettlemen made a very interesting statement. He said the free agent market is pretty good because the cap is flat--money is limited. He also mentioned one-year contracts. Would he find the shopping cheaper in free agency for Guards or for CBs or WRs? In the draft, the players are paid based on where they are drafted. In free agency, positions have their own pay range. I think we will have a litte room in free agency after we make some moves.

Gettlemen also described the core of a winning team: QB, touchdown makers, and pass rush. (He then mentioned big guys). I think we have a QB, we have pass rushers (so did the Giants when they tool Pierre-Paul), so that leaves TD makers and big guys. What does a G cost in free agency? What about a WR?

I think we are more likely to draft a WR early and a G later, based on this one-sided logic. We need depth at G, so you take one in the fourth round and sign a vet to a one-year contract. If you draft Warmack, then sign a WR late to play behind a one-year contract free agent, the free agent costs more and the fourth rounder probably has less of a chance of starting. Whew. This is complex!

Again, I would LOVE Warmack and I think a RG is our biggest need. However.....

I agree with your thinking about Gettleman. Add that the Giants haven't drafted any o linemen in the first round since 1999.

Before you decide what our biggest need is, what until we release our veterans to get under the cap. Some big names are going to go and several more holes may emerge. The thinking is that Gamble may be a cap casualty. Which is a bigger need then, right guard or number 1 corner??

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Well in 2010 the 49ers used two first round picks on two OLine players. Davis and Iupati.

Sorry if I don't agree with plug and play patchwork players to protect our franchise player. And we do not have the cap flexibility to bring in quality pieces...at any position...

Well, that's the reason we'll be watching Kaapernick going in superbowls year after year while a player with almost the same skill set as him, Cam, will have sophomore slump, junior slump, senior lump, 5th senior year slump...after knee surgery slump and finally backup QB slump. And the circle continues with the panthers with the next #1 overall pick QB. Hopefully Cam plays it smart in the next 2 years.

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Posted

Nobody says later round picks can't be successful. They're normally 2-3 year projects. First round talent are ready to contribute day one. That's why their money is garanteed. WE NEED TO MAKE THE PLAYOFFS NOW! Not in 2-3 years.

Where did you get the idea that all first rounders are great day 1?? Talk to me about Ferguson for the Jets. He was a first rounder who has made 3 pro-bowls but took 3 years to get it together. Many first rounders get abused as rookies until they develop better hand and foot technique. For Every Ryan Clady there are just as many Ferguson's out there. And most rookie first round contracts are guaranteed.

Again if we need a proven guard, then get one in free agency. Shouldn't be that hard.

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I have seen 3 mock drafts that have Warmack going in the top 5. So do we still pick guard at number 14, or fill one of the other many needs??

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I have seen 3 mock drafts that have Warmack going in the top 5. So do we still pick guard at number 14, or fill one of the other many needs??

Me too. Last year, DeCastro was that G.

He went 24th.

Teams with multiple needs cannot afford to draft a G in the top half of the first round. They are luxury picks.

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I have seen 3 mock drafts that have Warmack going in the top 5. So do we still pick guard at number 14, or fill one of the other many needs??

The only guard to pick at 14 is the Mack. If he is gone you gotta think OT, DT, or CB. Barrett Jones could be the only interior lineman worth taking at that time, but the world forgets he won the Outland and was All American as a LT in 2011.

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I would love Warmack. However...

Gettlemen made a very interesting statement. He said the free agent market is pretty good because the cap is flat--money is limited. He also mentioned one-year contracts. Would he find the shopping cheaper in free agency for Guards or for CBs or WRs? In the draft, the players are paid based on where they are drafted. In free agency, positions have their own pay range. I think we will have a litte room in free agency after we make some moves.

Gettlemen also described the core of a winning team: QB, touchdown makers, and pass rush. (He then mentioned big guys). I think we have a QB, we have pass rushers (so did the Giants when they tool Pierre-Paul), so that leaves TD makers and big guys. What does a G cost in free agency? What about a WR?

I think we are more likely to draft a WR early and a G later, based on this one-sided logic. We need depth at G, so you take one in the fourth round and sign a vet to a one-year contract. If you draft Warmack, then sign a WR late to play behind a one-year contract free agent, the free agent costs more and the fourth rounder probably has less of a chance of starting. Whew. This is complex!

Again, I would LOVE Warmack and I think a RG is our biggest need. However.....

Lets do this in Salary formulas:

The Draft

WR (or CB) salary = G salary; Guards taken in the middle rounds are more successful than WRs (or CBs) taken in the middle rounds.

Free Agency

WR (or CB) salary > G salary

THEREFORE, smart money drafts the skill players and finds the RG later in the draft (supported by 1-year contract veteran).

These are not your Hurney's Panthers anymore.

Gettlemen also came from an organization with superb Offensive Line play in the Giants. Eli went through a period last year in which he had like 250 drop backs without being sacked and that's an immobile QB. So the future is kind of bright for us. When you have a coach who is not so bright, you need a winner to manage their stupidity. I'm still mad about him taking a knee with 50s left and 2 time outs left.

As far as the big guy statement, one thing I always believe is that Steve Smith, although great, is too short to be a #1. Look at it this way, the Giants have Victor Cruz, and guy who can do everything Smith can do, but he is not their primary. The future is looking bright with this new GM. He is seeing what the fan is seeing.

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Gettlemen also came from an organization with superb Offensive Line play in the Giants. Eli went through a period last year in which he had like 250 drop backs without being sacked and that's an immobile QB. So the future is kind of bright for us. When you have a coach who is not so bright, you need a winner to manage their stupidity. I'm still mad about him taking a knee with 50s left and 2 time outs left.

As far as the big guy statement, one thing I always believe is that Steve Smith, although great, is too short to be a #1. Look at it this way, the Giants have Victor Cruz, and guy who can do everything Smith can do, but he is not their primary. The future is looking bright with this new GM. He is seeing what the fan is seeing.

Interesting comments about Smith. I have said that too. Marty Hurney never addressed the need for a true #1 successfully (unless you count Southern Cal WRs Jarrett, Colbert, and an aging Keyshawn.) Lafell is the best WR he ever brought in. Lafell is a nice player, but the best WR in 10 years?

I think the Panthers will draft a WR or a CB in the first. Looking at the draft this year, I like CB in the second because the only one worth a top 16 pick will be gone. I also think there are some solid second round-level CBs. I think Gettlemen tries to trade down. if not, Allen or Williams, WR.

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Where did you get the idea that all first rounders are great day 1?? Talk to me about Ferguson for the Jets. He was a first rounder who has made 3 pro-bowls but took 3 years to get it together. Many first rounders get abused as rookies until they develop better hand and foot technique. For Every Ryan Clady there are just as many Ferguson's out there. And most rookie first round contracts are guaranteed.

Again if we need a proven guard, then get one in free agency. Shouldn't be that hard.

Well, top 15 players are normally solid contributors. Nothing is ever garanteed.

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Interesting comments about Smith. I have said that too. Marty Hurney never addressed the need for a true #1 successfully (unless you count Southern Cal WRs Jarrett, Colbert, and an aging Keyshawn.) Lafell is the best WR he ever brought in. Lafell is a nice player, but the best WR in 10 years?

I think the Panthers will draft a WR or a CB in the first. Looking at the draft this year, I like CB in the second because the only one worth a top 16 pick will be gone. I also think there are some solid second round-level CBs. I think Gettlemen tries to trade down. if not, Allen or Williams, WR.

I remember watching Lafell at LSU, he was never a consistent receiver. He is the same way he was in college and I haven't seen much improvements. He is the guy that makes the surprise catches instead of the routine catches. Those guys are normally good when their team is up by 2 TDs.

If we can take the load of Smith with a #1 80 catches/year type of receiver, he would eat people up every sunday with Lafell playing the #3 receiver spot.

As was noted by @panther55 about our starting center being gone last year and the need for a guard, if we can get those things straight we'll be a force to reckon with.

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