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WE (K)NEED 1st ROUND TALENT ON OUR O LINE. period


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#91 MHS831

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 05:54 PM

I have seen 3 mock drafts that have Warmack going in the top 5. So do we still pick guard at number 14, or fill one of the other many needs??

Me too. Last year, DeCastro was that G.

He went 24th.
Teams with multiple needs cannot afford to draft a G in the top half of the first round. They are luxury picks.

#92 Swaggasaurus

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 06:10 PM

I have seen 3 mock drafts that have Warmack going in the top 5. So do we still pick guard at number 14, or fill one of the other many needs??

The only guard to pick at 14 is the Mack. If he is gone you gotta think OT, DT, or CB. Barrett Jones could be the only interior lineman worth taking at that time, but the world forgets he won the Outland and was All American as a LT in 2011.

#93 Guest_BlueBoy_*

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 06:20 PM

I would love Warmack. However...

Gettlemen made a very interesting statement. He said the free agent market is pretty good because the cap is flat--money is limited. He also mentioned one-year contracts. Would he find the shopping cheaper in free agency for Guards or for CBs or WRs? In the draft, the players are paid based on where they are drafted. In free agency, positions have their own pay range. I think we will have a litte room in free agency after we make some moves.

Gettlemen also described the core of a winning team: QB, touchdown makers, and pass rush. (He then mentioned big guys). I think we have a QB, we have pass rushers (so did the Giants when they tool Pierre-Paul), so that leaves TD makers and big guys. What does a G cost in free agency? What about a WR?

I think we are more likely to draft a WR early and a G later, based on this one-sided logic. We need depth at G, so you take one in the fourth round and sign a vet to a one-year contract. If you draft Warmack, then sign a WR late to play behind a one-year contract free agent, the free agent costs more and the fourth rounder probably has less of a chance of starting. Whew. This is complex!



Again, I would LOVE Warmack and I think a RG is our biggest need. However.....

Lets do this in Salary formulas:

The Draft
WR (or CB) salary = G salary; Guards taken in the middle rounds are more successful than WRs (or CBs) taken in the middle rounds.
Free Agency
WR (or CB) salary > G salary

THEREFORE, smart money drafts the skill players and finds the RG later in the draft (supported by 1-year contract veteran).

These are not your Hurney's Panthers anymore.

Gettlemen also came from an organization with superb Offensive Line play in the Giants. Eli went through a period last year in which he had like 250 drop backs without being sacked and that's an immobile QB. So the future is kind of bright for us. When you have a coach who is not so bright, you need a winner to manage their stupidity. I'm still mad about him taking a knee with 50s left and 2 time outs left.

As far as the big guy statement, one thing I always believe is that Steve Smith, although great, is too short to be a #1. Look at it this way, the Giants have Victor Cruz, and guy who can do everything Smith can do, but he is not their primary. The future is looking bright with this new GM. He is seeing what the fan is seeing.

#94 MHS831

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 06:36 PM

Gettlemen also came from an organization with superb Offensive Line play in the Giants. Eli went through a period last year in which he had like 250 drop backs without being sacked and that's an immobile QB. So the future is kind of bright for us. When you have a coach who is not so bright, you need a winner to manage their stupidity. I'm still mad about him taking a knee with 50s left and 2 time outs left.

As far as the big guy statement, one thing I always believe is that Steve Smith, although great, is too short to be a #1. Look at it this way, the Giants have Victor Cruz, and guy who can do everything Smith can do, but he is not their primary. The future is looking bright with this new GM. He is seeing what the fan is seeing.


Interesting comments about Smith. I have said that too. Marty Hurney never addressed the need for a true #1 successfully (unless you count Southern Cal WRs Jarrett, Colbert, and an aging Keyshawn.) Lafell is the best WR he ever brought in. Lafell is a nice player, but the best WR in 10 years?

I think the Panthers will draft a WR or a CB in the first. Looking at the draft this year, I like CB in the second because the only one worth a top 16 pick will be gone. I also think there are some solid second round-level CBs. I think Gettlemen tries to trade down. if not, Allen or Williams, WR.

#95 Guest_BlueBoy_*

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 06:48 PM

Where did you get the idea that all first rounders are great day 1?? Talk to me about Ferguson for the Jets. He was a first rounder who has made 3 pro-bowls but took 3 years to get it together. Many first rounders get abused as rookies until they develop better hand and foot technique. For Every Ryan Clady there are just as many Ferguson's out there. And most rookie first round contracts are guaranteed.

Again if we need a proven guard, then get one in free agency. Shouldn't be that hard.

Well, top 15 players are normally solid contributors. Nothing is ever garanteed.

#96 Guest_BlueBoy_*

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 07:10 PM

Interesting comments about Smith. I have said that too. Marty Hurney never addressed the need for a true #1 successfully (unless you count Southern Cal WRs Jarrett, Colbert, and an aging Keyshawn.) Lafell is the best WR he ever brought in. Lafell is a nice player, but the best WR in 10 years?

I think the Panthers will draft a WR or a CB in the first. Looking at the draft this year, I like CB in the second because the only one worth a top 16 pick will be gone. I also think there are some solid second round-level CBs. I think Gettlemen tries to trade down. if not, Allen or Williams, WR.

I remember watching Lafell at LSU, he was never a consistent receiver. He is the same way he was in college and I haven't seen much improvements. He is the guy that makes the surprise catches instead of the routine catches. Those guys are normally good when their team is up by 2 TDs.

If we can take the load of Smith with a #1 80 catches/year type of receiver, he would eat people up every sunday with Lafell playing the #3 receiver spot.

As was noted by @panther55 about our starting center being gone last year and the need for a guard, if we can get those things straight we'll be a force to reckon with.

#97 jarhead

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 07:16 PM

1st round will be a safe pick I have a feeling.We cant screw this up

#98 MHS831

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 08:33 PM

1st round will be a safe pick I have a feeling.We cant screw this up

I think it could be, but I am not sure we go Guard. However, G would be the safest. You are right though--screwing up that pick could be bad. However, if I was going to draft an OL at #14, I take a look at a LT like Fisher. I really hope we can trade down.

#99 Rubi

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 08:34 PM

Don't agree with your black and white concrete thinking. I think we use our first on a skill position and draft or pick up guards later in the draft or in free agency on a 1 year deal. Gettleman in his conference call today said you don't have to unload the bank or overspend for good players. They said they had success going after guys they wanted on short term contracts to fill in while you wait until the right circumstance to use your high draft picks.

So if Warmack is so great and is gone by pick 14 then what. Your obsession with 1 player is ridiculous.


I'm trying to prove a point that an organization should not limit themselves on who they select based on subjective "value" or by disqualifying players because of their position.

Really has nothing to do with Warmack. He's the example.

You think we can just mix and match and plug in OLine pieces and be successful.

I'd rather follow a 49ers plan. Look at their fronts compared to ours. It's really no contest..

#100 Rubi

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 08:40 PM

Everyone assumes the offensive line sucks because we have bad players. Lets consider when you lose your all pro center, move your starting right guard to center, have a rookie at left guard and have to juggle pieces around, what kind of continuity and chemistry can you have.

We need a right guard that is really it. We don't have to replace the whole line.


After reading this statement I no longer have any desire to ever say anything to you again. Wow...just...wow.

#101 panthers55

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 09:15 PM

After reading this statement I no longer have any desire to ever say anything to you again. Wow...just...wow.


Do me a favor and stick to that. Sorry if I don't suffer fools lightly.

#102 jungleking

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 10:39 AM

lol

Hutchinson didn't either, so I don't see why it's such a ludicrous idea.

#103 Guest_BlueBoy_*

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 06:48 PM

Today again prove choir boy O Line can't win you superbowl. Both QBs were untouched leaving the playmakers to make play and flourish.

#104 iamhubby1

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 08:33 PM

With the 14th pick you need a playmaker, a game changer. Sorry, but a Guard does not fit that criteria.

A ballhawking DB. A dominant DT. Those are game changers. Hell, even a WR is better than taking a Guard.

The only O-linmen you take at 14 is a LT, and we really don't need to waste that pick this year.

#105 MrBubba

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 10:26 PM

Take good tackle play at RT as rook then move Bell to RG. Second year move to LT and release gross


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