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PhillyB

Here's an interesting article on homosexuality and biblical scholarship

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what about slave owners that died having never recognized that owning another human being was a sin? Is every slave owner pre-1865 in hell?

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what about slave owners that died having never recognized that owning another human being was a sin? Is every slave owner pre-1865 in hell?

Anyone seeking to justify themselves before God, will fall short. Of course, God will judge us based on what we know. With all that said, American slave owners sought to use the Bible (OT) to justify african slavery (and native american slavery for that matter). Yet according to the laws of the OT, if you captured anyone to make him a slave, the person who captured the slave would be put to death, and the slave was set free. According to the laws of the OT, the whole US would have been put to death.

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Anyone seeking to justify themselves before God, will fall short. Of course, God will judge us based on what we know. With all that said, American slave owners sought to use the Bible (OT) to justify african slavery (and native american slavery for that matter). Yet according to the laws of the OT, if you captured anyone to make him a slave, the person who captured the slave would be put to death, and the slave was set free. According to the laws of the OT, the whole US would have been put to death.

so if a gay person honestly thinks there's nothing wrong with homosexuality and lives his life out accordingly, is he going to hell?

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so if a gay person honestly thinks there's nothing wrong with homosexuality and lives his life out accordingly, is he going to hell?

Yes because it would mean he's justifying himself before God. I'm assuming this person knows who God is and experienced Him in some way. It all goes back to knowing, because that is what God is going to judge us by. Not everyone knows of God or experienced His goodness.

Let me say it another way. If God was staring you in the face, the one who knows everything and sees everything, and He told you homosexuality is off the standard of where He created us, what knowledge would you have to tell God He's wrong?

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Yes because it would mean he's justifying himself before God. I'm assuming this person knows who God is and experienced Him in some way. It all goes back to knowing, because that is what God is going to judge us by. Not everyone knows of God or experienced His goodness.

Let me say it another way. If God was staring you in the face, the one who knows everything and sees everything, and He told you homosexuality is off the standard of where He created us, what knowledge would you have to tell God He's wrong?

but the bible makes it clear that owning another person is an asshole thing to do, and you just said that all former slave owners aren't necessarily going to hell. isn't this a double standard?

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but the bible makes it clear that owning another person is an asshole thing to do, and you just said that all former slave owners aren't necessarily going to hell. isn't this a double standard?

I said God judge us based on what we know. There are children who commit crime, but because they didn't know it was a crime, they aren't judged like an adult who was fully aware. God will judge us based on what we know.

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I said God judge us based on what we know. There are children who commit crime, but because they didn't know it was a crime, they aren't judged like an adult who was fully aware. God will judge us based on what we know.

well i just asked if a gay man who doesn't know being gay is wrong is going to hell and you said yes. are you changing your answer?

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well i just asked if a gay man who doesn't know being gay is wrong is going to hell and you said yes. are you changing your answer?

Nope, you said if he doesn't "think" there's nothing wrong with it. There's a difference. I got from that he's been told, and he knows what God has said concerning it. Yet he doesn't see anything wrong with it, he is now justifying himself. He knows God says it's not how He created us, yet the man accepts it because he can find nothing wrong with it. It's like a criminal finding nothing wrong with his crime. He is still judged for it because he knows the law.

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Nope, you said if he doesn't "think" there's nothing wrong with it. There's a difference. I got from that he's been told, and he knows what God has said concerning it. Yet he doesn't see anything wrong with it, he is now justifying himself. He knows God says it's not how He created us, yet the man accepts it because he can find nothing wrong with it. It's like a criminal finding nothing wrong with his crime. He is still judged for it because he knows the law.

you only "know" that homosexuality is wrong because you think that biblical literalism is the correct (and only) way to interpret the scriptures. a gay man may very well "not know" that homosexuality is wrong because he doesn't "know" that mosaic cosmogonies are "correct."

the dynamic you're describing here is cripplingly simplistic and ignores the complexity of interpretive analysis and its epistemological effects. it also happens to be the reason establishment christianity is dying.

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you only "know" that homosexuality is wrong because you think that biblical literalism is the correct (and only) way to interpret the scriptures. a gay man may very well "not know" that homosexuality is wrong because he doesn't "know" that mosaic cosmogonies are "correct."

the dynamic you're describing here is cripplingly simplistic and ignores the complexity of interpretive analysis and its epistemological effects. it also happens to be the reason establishment christianity is dying.

Jesus said if the people would have believed Moses, they would have believed Him, because Moses wrote about Him. That was a clear indication that the things Moses wrote about, meaning the first five books attributed to Moses, literally happened. Now those who are saying it shouldn't be interpreted literally, are the same ones who have a hard time understanding why Jesus came. That is the reason why the establishment of Christianity is dying. Of course, for over a thousand years the teachings of Christ have been muddled by man's traditions. It's only in this day where His teachings are getting back to where it was in the time He taught them. That is why literalism have come back strong during the mid 20th century.

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Jesus said if the people would have believed Moses, they would have believed Him, because Moses wrote about Him. That was a clear indication that the things Moses wrote about, meaning the first five books attributed to Moses, literally happened. Now those who are saying it shouldn't be interpreted literally, are the same ones who have a hard time understanding why Jesus came. That is the reason why the establishment of Christianity is dying. Of course, for over a thousand years the teachings of Christ have been muddled by man's traditions. It's only in this day where His teachings are getting back to where it was in the time He taught them. That is why literalism have come back strong during the mid 20th century.

so wait are you arguing for full biblical literalism and the return of ruling legalities determined by mosaic cosmogonies? and if so, how do you intend to factor man's interpretation of what literal means?

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ps you ignored all my actual questions and i'm 90% sure you don't know what mosaic cosmogony is

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