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Here's an interesting article on homosexuality and biblical scholarship


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#111 mmmbeans

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 06:15 PM

As far as training the dog goes.... you are his master and superior and he wants to please you. You can see how excited he gets when he pleases you..... who is YOUR MASTER AND SUPERIOR?


Is that why he tried to destroy my furniture? Because he wanted to please me? You ignore my point and turn it in to a god allegory.

My kid doesn't do good things because she's inherently good... she does them because I taught her that those were the right things to do. Those values were bestowed upon her by me... Just as they were passed down to me from my parents.

Morals and values are learned... this conversation is evidence enough to that.

#112 Kral

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 06:16 PM

As far as training the dog goes.... you are his master and superior and he wants to please you. You can see how excited he gets when he pleases you..... who is YOUR MASTER AND SUPERIOR?


When you are a child that would be your parents. When you give the dog to a new owner the conditioning goes with him.

#113 TbTeRRoR

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 07:09 PM

it's amazing to me that that phrase was coined by dietrich bonhoeffer, a christian thinker and philosopher. the past two hundred years of legitimate christian scholarship has, by and large, been squashed under the boot of frantic biblical literalists whose dangerous fundamentalism has resulted in people like TbTeRrOr getting on the internet and espousing absurdities like "single mothers effectively cause shootings" and "man look at society's slide towards apostasy, back in the day you couldn't swear and stuff and now you hear swear words on tv"

You know I'm getting quiet tired of you misquoting me on the single mother deal.. in fact I never specifically said single mother I said working mothers who don't rais their own children and it wasn't to the context of one shooting. It was about why the world was turning into a worse place to live. Why more bad things would happen. You don't install values in your kids anymore.

#114 Matthias

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 08:25 PM

Christians tend to harp on actions, and how actions condemn a person. Yet we miss the most important part completely. Men and women are not sinners because they sin, they sin because their sinners. It's in our DNA! So all this harping on homosexuality and how homosexuals should stop their feelings, is impossible to do. By the way, sin only exists if Genesis literally happened. The word means "to miss the mark". In terms of creation and our bodies, we are way off the mark concerning how we were in the day God created us. Thus we are sinners by nature.

For those interested, the word repent in the greek means to "change the mind". Anyone who says repent in terms of Christianity and see that word as feeling sorrowful or physically turning away from sin, that is not accurate at all. When a sinner repents, it means the person now sees himself/herself corrupt and unable to do good. Once they changed their mind about themselves, then they believe on Christ, receive His nature.

#115 Kral

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 08:41 PM

How did you come by this philosophy?

Genuine curiosity.

#116 Matthias

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 08:47 PM

How did you come by this philosophy?

Genuine curiosity.


What about it specifically you want to know concerning it?

#117 Kral

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 08:56 PM

Yet we miss the most important part completely. Men and women are not sinners because they sin, they sin because their sinners. It's in our DNA!


if Genesis literally happened.


In terms of creation and our bodies, we are way off the mark concerning how we were in the day God created us.


I guess this most specifically.

I get what you were saying about the Greek usage of repentance in the New Testament however I do not see how you can legitimately claim a person can do no good at all unless they see themselves as someone who is unable to do good. Can you explain this as well?

#118 Matthias

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 09:11 PM

I guess this most specifically.

I get what you were saying about the Greek usage of repentance in the New Testament however I do not see how you can legitimately claim a person can do no good at all unless they see themselves as someone who is unable to do good. Can you explain this as well?


When say I good, I mean it in an absolute term. We all have the sense of right and wrong, as we grow and as time move on, we tweak it to better suit human living condition. Yet if we are to use good as an absolute term, where evil didn't exist, then no one is that because we all have a little bit of evil within us. (And I say a little bit of evil in a relative term, but to a perfect person, having in any evil in you makes you just plain evil)

Now in terms of a literal Genesis, God created us to live forever. The very fact that we die, means our bodies are off the mark, and are not working like when God first created man.

#119 Kral

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 09:15 PM

In what way is sinning in our DNA?

Additionally what is absolute good?

I find both of these concepts puzzling.

#120 Matthias

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 09:30 PM

In what way is sinning in our DNA?

Additionally what is absolute good?

I find both of these concepts puzzling.


Sinning is in our DNA as in our bodies are corrupt. Everything about us, our thinking and how we treat each other, is simply not how God created us to operate. Our DNA is information of our makeup. We are essentially copies of our parents in a way, and if one believe in the literal Genesis, our information ultimately goes back to Adam and Eve. When they fell, it was like a virus entered in, a disease that began to tear at their bodies. We inherited this disease, just like sickle cell traits are passed down. That is why we can't be good, or you can say be perfect, because our makeup can no longer do what it could in the day of creation.

What is absolute good? Pretty much perfection. Having no evil. Yet we can just leave it at absolute good. We see good in relative ways, that's why people change over time, views change. Yet if there was an absolute good, if there was a level that did not change, that kind of good condemns us.


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