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Parcells & Taylor have solution to read-options(play-action run).genius

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#46 bleys

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 03:15 PM

you can't get penalized for hitting the QB because he isn't out of the play. matter of fact, he's assumed to be the playmaker until that last second he ditches the ball, leaving him wide open to get knocked the fug out..

#47 Guest_BlueBoy_*

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 03:17 PM

I am not really sure what the original poster is trying to say with play action and adjusting defenses, but it sounds like parcells is just advocating playing your defense and hitting the quarterback as often as possible when you have the opportunity. You'll get flagged a few times, but the hesitation and wear and tear on the quarterback will probably be worth it.

How much wear and tear can a QB really have running it a few times a game? Rodgers was the most sacked QB in the league last year. Even RG3 barely gets hit when I watch him play. His injury was just a freak accident. Cam got hit more dropping back than on read options.

#48 Davidson Deac II

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 03:21 PM

nice in theory....but that essentially opens up the RB's hole more easily. Also, sets up the D for penalties.



That is true, but Parcells understands how important the qb is in today's game. After watching their multimillion dollar qb get planted into the turf a few times, and get up wobbly, coaches will start to shy away from a play that makes the qb a runner and doesn't give them a chance to get down before getting hit. And fwiw, a chance to plant the qb might pay dividends later in the game and might be worth the risk of a penalty or two, or a couple of long runs by the rb.

This strategy might work better though against guys like Wilson and Griffin than against a bigger runner like Cam.

#49 CatMan72

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 03:21 PM

The most effective way to defend the read option is by using the "scrape exchange" technique where the DE and LB entice the QB into keeping the ball. The DE crashes down on the HB but the LB scrapes behind the DE and gets the QB who decided to keep based on the actions of the DE.

There is no mystery to stopping the read option, it's just that NFL defenses have not fully adapted to it yet.

In our case, you have the added problem of your LB needing to take down our 6'5" 250 lb QB one-on-one. In most cases, where the read option is involved - your LB's are not giving away size to the opposing QB.

#50 Guest_BlueBoy_*

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 03:26 PM

The offense is fine, unfortunately the play calls at certain times and on certain downs is the reason we missed the playoffs once again

I know. And I can't wait when those genius DCs figure out how to stop Cam from running and let him drop 5000 through the air instead. I love it!

#51 Guest_BlueBoy_*

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 03:31 PM

Ask RG3's knee how effective it is

RG3 got injured on a broken play. Not a read option where the QB reads the defense to make sure no one is acounting for him and take it. You need to watch more non panthers games instead of sportscenter. Oh! my bad, you don't have sunday ticket.

#52 CatMan72

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 03:38 PM

The other thing we have working in our favor is that Cam is particularly skilled at avoiding the big hit.

When was the last time you saw Cam get the "rag doll" treatment we've seen RG3 get?

There's a good reason why Cam drops to the ground like he's been shot when he's gotten every yard he can get and when he drops he has enough body awareness and control to not flail his arms and legs like RG3 does (which resulted in his knee injury).

When there is contact, Cam is very good at minimizing the impact. It helps to have a big body, but it's also an art form and Cam is a master.

#53 Guest_BlueBoy_*

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 03:40 PM

when you are playing agianst an option you have man to man responsibilites. You tell your DE not to guess and go for QB. The OLB is responsible for the RB and not charging in after the QB. Isn't this just plain ole assignment football they talk about it in college all the time. Trust your teammates to be where they are supposed to and don't shirk your assignment on option plays.

Edit: Also on pitch plays your still allowed to blow the QB up because he's not passing I could be wrong not sure?

Actually, the DE is assigned to the LT/RT. So he'll be blocked. The OLB is the one that goes after either the RB or QB, whomever have the ball. He is sometimes left un-blocked on read option plays. That's why he normally looks like he is chasing a ghost on that play because he doesn't know who has the ball. On the game between the skins and cowboys the announcer was talking how the olb was chasing something that wasn't there. It was beautiful, i tell ya.

#54 Guest_BlueBoy_*

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 03:51 PM

you can't get penalized for hitting the QB because he isn't out of the play. matter of fact, he's assumed to be the playmaker until that last second he ditches the ball, leaving him wide open to get knocked the fug out..

What you still don't understand, at that more the defense still hasn't gotten to the QB yet. It only takes a split second for that interaction between the QB & RB. It take a while for the defense to get to the QB. Just like a quick slant, defenses don't have enough time to reach the QB to hit them other than a blown assignment. Go on youtube and look for Cam, RG3, Kaapernick highlights and you'll see what I am talking about.

#55 bleys

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 03:55 PM

What you still don't understand, at that more the defense still hasn't gotten to the QB yet. It only takes a split second for that interaction between the QB & RB. It take a while for the defense to get to the QB. Just like a quick slant, defenses don't have enough time to reach the QB to hit them other than a blown assignment. Go on youtube and look for Cam, RG3, Kaapernick highlights and you'll see what I am talking about.


comparing the play action to read option isn't accurate. One is handing the ball off and the other is potentially running the ball.

what's to understand is really quite simple. A few things you said that aren't completely accurate..

1) the QB running play-action never implies or attempts to run the ball. You can still, however, hit the QB if you think he's going to turn around and throw the ball. There is time there where no penalty would occur.

With that said,

2) when a QB runs the read option, there is implication that the QB could run and assuming the QB doesn't hand the ball off and get hit 10 seconds later, he can get hit as often as a defender can get to him.. There would be no penalty, unless you want to pretend that Parcells is talking about wracking up roughing the passer penalties which is a whole other topic at hand..

#56 Guest_BlueBoy_*

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 03:57 PM

That is true, but Parcells understands how important the qb is in today's game. After watching their multimillion dollar qb get planted into the turf a few times, and get up wobbly, coaches will start to shy away from a play that makes the qb a runner and doesn't give them a chance to get down before getting hit. And fwiw, a chance to plant the qb might pay dividends later in the game and might be worth the risk of a penalty or two, or a couple of long runs by the rb.

This strategy might work better though against guys like Wilson and Griffin than against a bigger runner like Cam.

I don't think OCs will shy away from taking a 'risk' 6 times a game for big returns. Those QBs hit the iron same as every one. Like I say before, they don't get hit that much. Wilson didn't get hit once on an option play in an important playoff game.

#57 Guest_BlueBoy_*

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 04:00 PM

The most effective way to defend the read option is by using the "scrape exchange" technique where the DE and LB entice the QB into keeping the ball. The DE crashes down on the HB but the LB scrapes behind the DE and gets the QB who decided to keep based on the actions of the DE.

There is no mystery to stopping the read option, it's just that NFL defenses have not fully adapted to it yet.

In our case, you have the added problem of your LB needing to take down our 6'5" 250 lb QB one-on-one. In most cases, where the read option is involved - your LB's are not giving away size to the opposing QB.

Also, you can't say you stop the read-option when the QB throws for over 300 and RB rush for 120 and win the game.

#58 Stroupe-a-loop

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 04:01 PM

How much wear and tear can a QB really have running it a few times a game? Rodgers was the most sacked QB in the league last year. Even RG3 barely gets hit when I watch him play. His injury was just a freak accident. Cam got hit more dropping back than on read options.


Griiffin got hit a ton, and the people that watched washington games constantly worried about him getting hurt. If you don't believe me, go listen to monday episodes of the tony kornheiser show following games. The offense shannahan ran in washington slowed, hobbled, and then broke one of the most promising young quarterbacks in the nfl.

The read option is a fine play to mix in, but the hits it adds as a base offensive play will eventually catch up to you. I like using it for Cam every now and then, but I don't think it's worth the extra hits to run it all the time (if cam gets hurt our seasons done).

#59 Davidson Deac II

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 04:03 PM

I don't think OCs will shy away from taking a 'risk' 6 times a game for big returns. Those QBs hit the iron same as every one. Like I say before, they don't get hit that much. Wilson didn't get hit once on an option play in an important playoff game.



Hits on qb's running a designed option tend to be harder than hits on a qb scramble. And since we are talking about Parcells theory on stopping it, did the falcons run the defense that Parcells is suggesting?

#60 Guest_BlueBoy_*

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 04:14 PM

comparing the play action to read option isn't accurate. One is handing the ball off and the other is potentially running the ball.

what's to understand is really quite simple. A few things you said that aren't completely accurate..

1) the QB running play-action never implies or attempts to run the ball. You can still, however, hit the QB if you think he's going to turn around and throw the ball. There is time there where no penalty would occur.

With that said,

2) when a QB runs the read option, there is implication that the QB could run and assuming the QB doesn't hand the ball off and get hit 10 seconds later, he can get hit as often as a defender can get to him.. There would be no penalty, unless you want to pretend that Parcells is talking about wracking up roughing the passer penalties which is a whole other topic at hand..

How do those two plays start? Faking the ball to the RB. That's where they're similar, thus comparable. Where they're NOT similar is the second part, which is running vs passing. I didn't say they're the same, remember.

on your first point, the defense hasn't reach to that level yet to hit the QB.

on your second point. How does the defense know whether it's a play action or read option to decide whether to hit the QB late? You see what I'm saying.



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