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Matt Foley

What if?

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And, for the record, I am the son of a preacher and grew up in the church. That will give you a different perspective on organized religion. Luckily, I wasn't forced into following and was given the freedom to form my own opinions, draw my own conclusions and walk my own path. For that, I'll always be grateful.

lucky bastard!

My parents would flip as well as most family members and many of my old friends. I just keep it to myself for the most part.

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I'll try to answer all and not get to "Quote" heavy. Hope you'll forgive :)

Proof that God exists:

I will concede God cannot be proven through empirical evidence; however he cannot be disproved through empirical evidence either. However there are logical arguments one can make.

Since it is apparent that the Universe it not eternal, and since likewise it is apparent that the Universe could not have created itself, the only remaining alternative is that the Universe was created by something, or Someone, that: (a) existed before it, i.e., some eternal, uncaused First Cause; (B) is superior to it—since the created cannot be superior to the creator; and © is of a different nature, since the finite, contingent Universe of matter is unable to explain itself (see Jackson and Carroll, n.d., 2:98-154).

In connection with this, another important fact should be considered. If there ever had been a time when nothing existed, then there would be nothing now. It is a self-evident truth that nothing produces nothing. In view of this, since something exists now, it must follow logically that something has existed forever.

There is more out there for those who Want to find it.

...As to the attributes of God; its hard to present evidence of that to someone who doesn't believe in God. One step at a time :)

As to Fear and Doctors, the point I was trying to make is that Doctors are not held up as fear mongers because they tell you that you're sick. The followers of Christ simply believe that Man was made good and then broken because of the choices that were made. To be fixed, you need Christ. IMO that's not fear mongering and when I am telling people about Christ, avoiding hell is not the ultimate goal.

Also, interesting theory on Galvatron , but he's just the toy that's sitting on my desk at work. :D

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The fact that the universe is expanding leaves room for a "god" but it isn't evidence for one.

I believed in God for 20 years, I see no evidence of a loving all powerful god.

edit: As for needing Jesus to be fixed. I know many people with "jesus" that are more "broken" then any atheist/agnostic I know.

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Jesus is the devil. That's why you are all forced to go through him to get to your god.

</pot stir>

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The fact that the universe is expanding leaves room for a "god" but it isn't evidence for one.

I believed in God for 20 years, I see no evidence of a loving all powerful god.

edit: As for needing Jesus to be fixed. I know many people with "jesus" that are more "broken" then any atheist/agnostic I know.

I know them too. It seems that, unfortunately, some use that 'relationship' with Jesus as a crutch to do terrible things and then just say they are sorry in church and carry on feeling like they've been forgiven.

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A personal observation from people watching over the years is that religion is a kinder, gentler crutch than drugs or alcohol for many people.

It's an easy way to get out of thinking about the idea that we all die and that's it.

It's a nice communal experience, and there's usually juicy gossip going around.

It can be a great way to get yourself to believe that your opinions are better in some way than others.

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A personal observation from people watching over the years is that religion is a kinder, gentler crutch than drugs or alcohol for many people.

It's an easy way to get out of thinking about the idea that we all die and that's it.

It's a nice communal experience, and there's usually juicy gossip going around.

It can be a great way to get yourself to believe that your opinions are better in some way than others.

And there is the control aspect. None of us really control when we are going to die, if we our parents get cancer if our child is born defective. But Christians beleive they can control it with prayer. though we all know that despite what Jesus said about prayer that prayers don't always "get answered" and when they don't they just call it God's will and see it as God doing what is in there best interest. its a win win situation. who wouldnt want an all powerful being looking out for your best interest?!!!

its delusional but comfy

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I know them too. It seems that, unfortunately, some use that 'relationship' with Jesus as a crutch to do terrible things and then just say they are sorry in church and carry on feeling like they've been forgiven.

That is truly awful and is a choice that people have. However I would submit that those with a true relationship are changed in a real and permanent way. That of course doesn't mean we're perfect, but being perfected.

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And there is the control aspect. None of us really control when we are going to die, if we our parents get cancer if our child is born defective. But Christians beleive they can control it with prayer. though we all know that despite what Jesus said about prayer that prayers don't always "get answered" and when they don't they just call it God's will and see it as God doing what is in there best interest. its a win win situation. who wouldnt want an all powerful being looking out for your best interest?!!!

its delusional but comfy

In America, there is a contingent of cultural Christians; it has become something that is passed down from parents to children like those born Jewish. But there are those who truly know Christ and have a changed life. The idea that its comfy here is true. We are very blessed to have the freedom to worship. However those who worship in secret in Iran, China, Cuba, etc. are the ones who would dispute that following Christ is comfortable.

I would say that what is in our best interest eternally is rarely what is comfortable and prayers are always answered; sometimes the answer is "No"

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That is truly awful and is a choice that people have. However I would submit that those with a true relationship are changed in a real and permanent way. That of course doesn't mean we're perfect, but being perfected.

"under renovation" :)

every christian i know claims they are in a true relationship and of course many of them have seriously different fundamental beliefs. funny how that can happen, anyways...I can say that my christian friends gossip and treat people much worst then my non-christian friends. There is always some kind of drama going on with them where as my group of non christian friends rarely get into any drama and all get along really well (i noticed this when i was a christian) Christian friends are so into themselves and consumed with knowing more about God and "gods work" that they miss out on becoming better people and treating people with respect

again just my observations

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Gods are fragile things; they may be killed by a whiff of science or a dose of common sense." -Chapman Cohen

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Quotes! Fun!!

Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear. Thomas Jefferson

Man created God in his image : intolerant, sexist, homophobic and violent.-Marie

I have examined all the known superstitions of the world, and I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology.- Thomas Jefferson

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One hundred religious persons knit into a unity by careful organization do not constitute a church any more than eleven dead men make a football team. The first requisite is life, always - AW Tozer

If there were no God, there would be no atheists - GK Chesterton

How to trap an atheist: Serve him a fine meal, then ask him if he believes there is a cook.

The atheist can't find God for the same reason that a thief can't find a police officer.

The devil is a better theologian than any of us and is a devil still. - AW Tozer

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Christians don't tell lies they just go to church and sing them - AW Tozer

:D I figured you would edit that post and remove the above quote since it contradicts what you've been saying all along. That's just hilarious!

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