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Matt Foley

What if?

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That is truly awful and is a choice that people have. However I would submit that those with a true relationship are changed in a real and permanent way. That of course doesn't mean we're perfect, but being perfected.

"under renovation" :)

every christian i know claims they are in a true relationship and of course many of them have seriously different fundamental beliefs. funny how that can happen, anyways...I can say that my christian friends gossip and treat people much worst then my non-christian friends. There is always some kind of drama going on with them where as my group of non christian friends rarely get into any drama and all get along really well (i noticed this when i was a christian) Christian friends are so into themselves and consumed with knowing more about God and "gods work" that they miss out on becoming better people and treating people with respect

again just my observations

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Gods are fragile things; they may be killed by a whiff of science or a dose of common sense." -Chapman Cohen

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Quotes! Fun!!

Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear. Thomas Jefferson

Man created God in his image : intolerant, sexist, homophobic and violent.-Marie

I have examined all the known superstitions of the world, and I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology.- Thomas Jefferson

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One hundred religious persons knit into a unity by careful organization do not constitute a church any more than eleven dead men make a football team. The first requisite is life, always - AW Tozer

If there were no God, there would be no atheists - GK Chesterton

How to trap an atheist: Serve him a fine meal, then ask him if he believes there is a cook.

The atheist can't find God for the same reason that a thief can't find a police officer.

The devil is a better theologian than any of us and is a devil still. - AW Tozer

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Christians don't tell lies they just go to church and sing them - AW Tozer

:D I figured you would edit that post and remove the above quote since it contradicts what you've been saying all along. That's just hilarious!

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Blindly copying and pasting because you think the first quote is cute. Still hilarious.

I actually took it out because I thought there were too many by one person. and I liked the one at the top better. :)

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I actually took it out because I thought there were too many by one person. and I liked the one at the top better. :)

You so craaazy :smilielol5:

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You so craaazy :smilielol5:

I'm not ashamed of the quote and it doesn't contradict anything I've said. I've maintained that I'm not perfect and sometimes the songs I sing in church are not how I'm feeling. I'm not some wide-eyed, well-dressed stereotype of a Christian who always has it together. Each line we sing can be powerful, transforming, and intentional, or it can just float around as a warm fuzzy for an evening and sometimes it does...

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Hmm...prove a God, especially one that has the attributes provided by Christianity....

Well, let's start easy. There are three plausible origins for the universe. One, the idea that the universe was created by something. Two, that the universe somehow came into being through its own accord from nothing. Three, the universe is endlessly self-perpetuating and therefore has no beginning. All are equally valid and all equally unprovable. However, logic dictates that only one has the possiblity of proof however vague or insignificant it may be.

The idea of nothing demands that there be no definition and no proof. Even providing the term "nothing" destroys the concept, which in itself is a self destructive paradox. Therefore, within the bounds of physical science, "nothing" cannot be proven.

The idea of infinance is a little bit more complicated, but not by much. The concept of "proof" demands a timeframe. Infinance operates quite outside that boundry. It would be impossible to prove infinance because it is impossible to decide when enough has been proven because there would always be further to go in any given direction.

Which leaves us with creation by a something.

I'll stop it there. I think I've left plenty of holes in my talking points here, so that should be a dandy conversation continuance.

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Hmm...prove a God, especially one that has the attributes provided by Christianity....

Well, let's start easy. There are three plausible origins for the universe. One, the idea that the universe was created by something. Two, that the universe somehow came into being through its own accord from nothing. Three, the universe is endlessly self-perpetuating and therefore has no beginning. All are equally valid and all equally unprovable. However, logic dictates that only one has the possiblity of proof however vague or insignificant it may be.

The idea of nothing demands that there be no definition and no proof. Even providing the term "nothing" destroys the concept, which in itself is a self destructive paradox. Therefore, within the bounds of physical science, "nothing" cannot be proven.

The idea of infinance is a little bit more complicated, but not by much. The concept of "proof" demands a timeframe. Infinance operates quite outside that boundry. It would be impossible to prove infinance because it is impossible to decide when enough has been proven because there would always be further to go in any given direction.

Which leaves us with creation by a something.

I'll stop it there. I think I've left plenty of holes in my talking points here, so that should be a dandy conversation continuance.

This is a great post and it poses great questions. First and foremost, "creation" of the universe is something that is so far beyond human intellect to comprehend that all we can do is guess. Thus, there can't really be a right or wrong answer. To conjecture on the creation of the universe leads one to wonder what "was" before the "creation" of such. (I'll stop with the quotation marks now. ;) ) Wondering if there was something before there was something is a paradox. How could there be something before there was something? It's unable to be comprehended. And if there was nothing before there was something, how was there something in that nothing that created something? What if everything is but a circular something, never starting, never ending? In solely my own opinion, I like to think of everything being similar to a soap bubble- you blow on the bubble, and another bubble can be formed, attached to the original bubble, but still a bubble of it's own. Those two bubble are connected but still separated in their own nature. Bubbles can create bubbles and the bubbles stay attached, creating means of passing from one bubble to another. Bubbles creating bubbles creating bubbles. The question is "what created the bubble" and "what blew on the bubble?" Is it science? Is it godly? Is it something so far beyond me that I can't even think of it?

I think because this paradox is SO far beyond the ability for a human mind to comprehend and extrapolate, it is the easiest conclusion to deduce that there is some greater power that caused all of this to happen... which brings us back to what was there before something was there.

Being an agnostic, I have no idea. I don't have the answers, and no one does. I simply don't believe the Bible's explanation of creation because it doesn't answer my questions. In no way am I saying it's right or wrong, my mind just won't believe it.

Therein lies the differentiation between myself and a believer: I don't have faith in the story, and I don't understand it enough to believe in the story.

[/deepness]

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