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Feb 4, 2000 Shula fired as OC...


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#76 panthers55

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 11:18 AM

Again, why would Shula be promoted over Jackson and Shurmur if Rivera thought he couldn't so the job and do it well?? I remember all the bitching about Chud based on what he did in Cleveland. How did that work out?? The game has gone to a quarterback driven offense in the past 12 years making him more relevant since that is what he does best. How did he do with Garrard??

#77 Zod

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 12:08 PM

Again, why would Shula be promoted over Jackson and Shurmur if Rivera thought he couldn't so the job and do it well??



Isn't that obvious?

Shula is Rivera's best hope at keeping his job. Not because he is the best OC available, but because he does not have to completely overhaul the current offense.

Hiring an outsider offensive coordinator would mean the entire offensive staff would be gone and a completely new offensive system in place. A new playbook. New terminology for the players to learn. New chemistry to be developed between players and coaches. Often, this can take more than one season to start yielding results.

Rivera does not have more than one season. If the Panthers do not win this year, he is gone. He knows it, everyone knows it.

So put yourself in his shoes. Knowing you can only lose 7 games next season or your ass is fired, would you

1: Hire a completely new offensive staff and implement a new system knowing in all likelyhood it will take a good of time to develop into a good offense if ever at all. or...

2. Promote from within and hope the current offense can be good enough to get you 9 wins. No learning curve, fewer variables.

Lets be clear here. The Shula hire was not made because he was the best candidate. Shula was hired because it presented the best option for Rivera to possibly win 9 games next season. It was a last ditch short term job saving hire. Any considerations past 2013 are an afterthought.

#78 CollegePanther

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 12:26 PM

Maybe it will help that he has a QB this time. You guys think way too deep, just try looking at the obvious things first. Give the guy a chance.

#79 Zod

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 12:29 PM

Maybe it will help that he has a QB this time. You guys think way too deep, just try looking at the obvious things first. Give the guy a chance.



The entire offense improved greatly once he was canned.

Next...

#80 panthers55

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 12:43 PM

Isn't that obvious?

Shula is Rivera's best hope at keeping his job. Not because he is the best OC available, but because he does not have to completely overhaul the current offense.

Hiring an outsider offensive coordinator would mean the entire offensive staff would be gone and a completely new offensive system in place. A new playbook. New terminology for the players to learn. New chemistry to be developed between players and coaches. Often, this can take more than one season to start yielding results.

Rivera does not have more than one season. If the Panthers do not win this year, he is gone. He knows it, everyone knows it.

So put yourself in his shoes. Knowing you can only lose 7 games next season or your ass is fired, would you

1: Hire a completely new offensive staff and implement a new system knowing in all likelyhood it will take a good of time to develop into a good offense if ever at all. or...

2. Promote from within and hope the current offense can be good enough to get you 9 wins. No learning curve, fewer variables.

Lets be clear here. The Shula hire was not made because he was the best candidate. Shula was hired because it presented the best option for Rivera to possibly win 9 games next season. It was a last ditch short term job saving hire. Any considerations past 2013 are an afterthought.


I think you are right in saying he had to win now and couldn't wait for a few years but that is hardly his fault. if JR told him that they are looking for the long term and he has the 2 years left on his contract to get things fixed then he could have the time to perhaps go with a new system.
But I am not convinced the system needed changes or was broken. And if you consider we want to go with the same system, perhaps he was the better candidate to continue what we had already established. If Shula can get keep things together and run the offense and we end up with 9 or 10 wins next year then he has done a good job and he should be the OC going forward.
I can see Rivera having a short term perspective but honestly so do all the fans. Given where we are right now and all the issues, Shula is the best candidate for the job.

#81 CollegePanther

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 12:51 PM

The entire offense improved greatly once he was canned.

Next...

His QB was Trent Dilfer. In Shula's last two years in TB, their offense was ranked 22nd and 28th. In the two years after he was fired their offense was ranked 21st and 24th. Improved greatly? Next...

#82 Zod

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 12:52 PM

His QB was Trent Dilfer. In Shula's last two years in TB, their offense was ranked 22nd and 28th. In the two years after he was fired their offense was ranked 21st and 24th. Improved greatly? Next...



Check the scoring stats.

Shula's biggest problem in Tampa and at Alabama for that matter was going full retard in the red zone.

#83 Sloth

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 12:59 PM

His QB was Trent Dilfer. In Shula's last two years in TB, their offense was ranked 22nd and 28th. In the two years after he was fired their offense was ranked 21st and 24th. Improved greatly? Next...


They jumped from 27th to 6th in points scored the year after Shula was fired.

#84 TheMaulClaw

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 01:08 PM



30th in passing, 28th overall offense yet Dungy still got them to the playoffs with that dominant "Tampa 2" defense. Dungy was a hell of a coach.

Under Shula the Bucs went 5 games with 0 touchdowns in 1999. Vomit.



The Bucs didn't really have any offensive weapons at this point in time. Dungy "a great coach" must have like Shula to let him run his offense, and that was 13 years ago. I wonder if you would get better at your job after 13 years?

#85 CollegePanther

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 01:14 PM

They jumped from 27th to 6th in points scored the year after Shula was fired.

They also had a different starting QB, RB, and signed Keyshawn Johnson at WR.

#86 Sloth

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 01:32 PM

They also had a different starting QB, RB, and signed Keyshawn Johnson at WR.


In your opinion, who was a better QB, Dilfer or Shaun King? Was Johnson the main reason they shifted up 21 spots in scoring?

#87 Cyberjag

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 02:14 PM

I seriously doubt that anyone here defending the selection would have had him on a short list of potential OCs had RIvera not put him there. A month ago, if you had polled the board about Shula the consensus would have been that he's a great QB coach, but a lousy OC. That's exactly what was said about him when he was hired.

But now, a head coach with two years left on his contract and one real year to win decides to promote him to OC, and suddenly he's not only the logical choice, he's going to be really good and his prior performance should not count when we talk about his qualifications. And besides, there are a ton of excuses available for why he did so poorly when he was actually calling plays.

Wouldn't it be nice, for a change, if we had coaches that didn't need excuses?

#88 panthers55

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 02:27 PM

I seriously doubt that anyone here defending the selection would have had him on a short list of potential OCs had RIvera not put him there. A month ago, if you had polled the board about Shula the consensus would have been that he's a great QB coach, but a lousy OC. That's exactly what was said about him when he was hired.

But now, a head coach with two years left on his contract and one real year to win decides to promote him to OC, and suddenly he's not only the logical choice, he's going to be really good and his prior performance should not count when we talk about his qualifications. And besides, there are a ton of excuses available for why he did so poorly when he was actually calling plays.

Wouldn't it be nice, for a change, if we had coaches that didn't need excuses?


I don't think he needs excuses. What he needs, is to be judged based on his current merits rather than the way he performed 6 or 15 years ago. People defending the choice are being loyal to the Panthers or Rivera and hoping for the best. People deriding it, are disappointed their favorite wasn't chosen. I wanted Jackson but it didn't happen so we are going with Shula. Not my choice but one I am going to get behind and support. After all why not hope for the best.. Especially in the offseason. There will be plenty of time to harpoon him in preseason or during the year the minute our offense stalls. I guess it is too soon to expect people to accept it, whether they like it or not. Not agree or even support it, just minimize the grumbling until justified.Then again it is the off-season and what else is there to talk about. I would love to be talking about playing right now instead of next year. Here is hoping that next year is our year.

#89 Cyberjag

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 03:05 PM

I don't think he needs excuses. What he needs, is to be judged based on his current merits rather than the way he performed 6 or 15 years ago. People defending the choice are being loyal to the Panthers or Rivera and hoping for the best. People deriding it, are disappointed their favorite wasn't chosen. I wanted Jackson but it didn't happen so we are going with Shula. Not my choice but one I am going to get behind and support. After all why not hope for the best.. Especially in the offseason. There will be plenty of time to harpoon him in preseason or during the year the minute our offense stalls. I guess it is too soon to expect people to accept it, whether they like it or not. Not agree or even support it, just minimize the grumbling until justified.Then again it is the off-season and what else is there to talk about. I would love to be talking about playing right now instead of next year. Here is hoping that next year is our year.

It's not a question of whether or not we support him and hope he does well, I hope everyone here does that and I certainly will.

It was still a shitty hire, and it pisses me off as a fan that I have to support it. I want a real reason to get excited about the next season, not some manufactured bullshit based on ignoring all the failures a hire had at calling plays before he came to Carolina.

#90 goodoleboy

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 03:25 PM

Honestly Shula is probably as good as we were going to get. How many good OC's are willing to hitch their wagons to Rivera's sinking ship? Unless they thought they might get a shot at the head coach job.


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