74 replies to this topic

[Marguide]

Like I said, his contract will be paid in full regardless of when he gets fired. He could get fired today or 18 months from now and still make the same amount of money. However, if he still wants to coach the Panthers in the future, he needs to win games and win them immediately. Hiring the coach that he feels gives him the best chance to do just that is what he's going to do.

Sorry Floppin', not buying this argument at all.

It's not about money. People that are highly motivated and proud (like anyone who reaches the level Ron has reached) are not thinking about money when it comes to decisions like these. They are thinking of their reputation, their ability to keep chasing their dreams, their ability to be respected by others in their industry.

Having a formerly successful and capable coach on his staff could certainly feel like a threat to him. It is only natural. He has visions of the new guy have side conversations with Gettleman or JR questioning his decisions. Every manager on the hot seat would feel the same. It would be naive to think fear and the bunker mentality played no part in his decision.

[Marguide]

Different JR and you know it

Fox wasn't fired cause he didn't want to pay him out. Hurney wasn't even under contract

What kind of revisionist history is this?

JR said the words himself in his now famous pie chart presser. He didn't want to pay out the $11 million in staff salaries and have to pay a new staff at the same time.

It couldn't have been much clearer.

[teeray]

Sorry Floppin', not buying this argument at all.

It's not about money. People that are highly motivated and proud (like anyone who reaches the level Ron has reached) are not thinking about money when it comes to decisions like these. They are thinking of their reputation, their ability to keep chasing their dreams, their ability to be respected by others in their industry.

Having a formerly successful and capable coach on his staff could certainly feel like a threat to him. It is only natural. He has visions of the new guy have side conversations with Gettleman or JR questioning his decisions. Every manager on the hot seat would feel the same. It would be naive to think fear and the bunker mentality played no part in his decision.

I am not sure this makes sense Marguide. If you are thinking about reputation and being respected by others in your industry, wouldn't you make a move that you felt gave you the best chance to win??

Because, if an OC is truly great, he will help make Ron Rivera look great, the Panthers will likely win, and Ron probably keeps his job and keeps chasing his dreams.

It sounds almost as if you are saying "He is so concerned about his reputation and being respected around the league, that he is purposely sabotaging himself by making lazy, shitty hires.

Just doesn't make sense, or at least it is counterintuitive.

[teeray]

What kind of revisionist history is this?

JR said the words himself in his now famous pie chart presser. He didn't want to pay out the $11 million in staff salaries and have to pay a new staff at the same time.

It couldn't have been much clearer.

I think you may have misinterpreted that, or if not I did. i think he meant that Fox wasn't fired after the 2009 season because JR didn't want to pay out his contract and another coaching staff.

That is they way I took it, but I may be wrong.

[Marguide]

I am not sure this makes sense Marguide. If you are thinking about reputation and being respected by others in your industry, wouldn't you make a move that you felt gave you the best chance to win??

Because, if an OC is truly great, he will help make Ron Rivera look great, the Panthers will likely win, and Ron probably keeps his job and keeps chasing his dreams.

It sounds almost as if you are saying "He is so concerned about his reputation and being respected around the league, that he is purposely sabotaging himself by making lazy, shitty hires.

Just doesn't make sense, or at least it is counterintuitive.

Don't confuse my two points.
1) Money is not the primary motivating factor for Rivera at this point, so the idea that he is going to get paid either way is irrelevant imo.
2) Yes, Ron's primary motivations are things like peer acceptance and achieving his long-term goals. However, a person under fire does not always make the best decisions. It is often difficult to step back and really look at things from an objective viewpoint. One would hope that Gettleman and/or JR would try to help Ron with that, but they may have different motivations and are going to let him sink or swim with his decision.

[Marguide]

I think you may have misinterpreted that, or if not I did. i think he meant that Fox wasn't fired after the 2009 season because JR didn't want to pay out his contract and another coaching staff.

That is they way I took it, but I may be wrong.

Ah ok. Sorry about that then.

It just amazes me when people b!tch about JR being a bit frugal and others think that is a ridiculous viewpoint. JR is often his own worst PR nightmare, so it is easy to see why people think he's kinda tight.

[X-Clown]

Yes they did when the NFC West was trash.

Wrong, they lost in week 17 of 2010 to the Seahawks, who ended up being the first team with a losing record to win a playoff game. Also known as the marshawn lynch takes a giant poo on the saints defense game.

[Not-Awesomeness]

Wrong, they lost in week 17 of 2010 to the Seahawks, who ended up being the first team with a losing record to win a playoff game. Also known as the marshawn lynch takes a giant poo on the saints defense game.

Ok yeah my mistake. But Bradford has at least been relevant past week 5

[fieryprophet]

Yes they did when the NFC West was trash.

As others have said, no, they didn't. What do I win?

[teeray]

Don't confuse my two points.
1) Money is not the primary motivating factor for Rivera at this point, so the idea that he is going to get paid either way is irrelevant imo.
2) Yes, Ron's primary motivations are things like peer acceptance and achieving his long-term goals. However, a person under fire does not always make the best decisions. It is often difficult to step back and really look at things from an objective viewpoint. One would hope that Gettleman and/or JR would try to help Ron with that, but they may have different motivations and are going to let him sink or swim with his decision.

In reference to #2 I understand your point, but it isn't like this has been a pooty offense and we are promoting from within. We have had 2 consecutive top 10 seasons on offense.

If our offense had not been successful and we did the same thing I would be on board with you 100%, but I understand the idea of having something that is successful and trying to continue it. That isn't irrational decision making.

Think of it this way if you were in Ron's shoes and on the hot seat. You can stay with an offense that has been very good with an OC that is very familiar with our personnel. Or hire a guy that may also be a good OC, but will likely spend the first half of the season playing with his new toy Cam Newton and trying to figure out how to use him to the best of Cam's abilities. Perhaps to the peril of your employment.

I don't know how this will turn out and I am actually pretty indifferent to the hire, but there is a logic in this hire that makes sense.

[Marguide]

In reference to #2 I understand your point, but it isn't like this has been a pooty offense and we are promoting from within. We have had 2 consecutive top 10 seasons on offense.

If our offense had not been successful and we did the same thing I would be on board with you 100%, but I understand the idea of having something that is successful and trying to continue it. That isn't irrational decision making.

Think of it this way if you were in Ron's shoes and on the hot seat. You can stay with an offense that has been very good with an OC that is very familiar with our personnel. Or hire a guy that may also be a good OC, but will likely spend the first half of the season playing with his new toy Cam Newton and trying to figure out how to use him to the best of Cam's abilities. Perhaps to the peril of your employment.

I don't know how this will turn out and I am actually pretty indifferent to the hire, but there is a logic in this hire that makes sense.

I understand the decision, but don't agree with it. And frankly, I don't agree with the Proehl and Rogers moves either. Ricky may turn out to be a great coach, but people only love this hire because we loved him as a WR. It's just my personal opinion that we needed to add experience to the staff, not take it away.

Not you, because I know you're not that way, but many on here have short memories about what transpired early this year and perhaps over-weigh what happened the last 6 weeks of the year. Other than the Falcons, we had some nice teams to help us pad our stats those last 6 weeks. Yes, we ended up ranked pretty high, I just hope we all haven't been deceived because of the level of competition.

I think we have something really, really special at the QB position. Guys like Cam don't come along every day. Were I in JR's shoes, my number 1 priority would be to give him and the rest of the team the absolute best staff available, and it doesn't seem to me we are anywhere near to that.

[teeray]

I understand the decision, but don't agree with it. And frankly, I don't agree with the Proehl and Rogers moves either. Ricky may turn out to be a great coach, but people only love this hire because we loved him as a WR. It's just my personal opinion that we needed to add experience to the staff, not take it away.

Not you, because I know you're not that way, but many on here have short memories about what transpired early this year and perhaps over-weigh what happened the last 6 weeks of the year. Other than the Falcons, we had some nice teams to help us pad our stats those last 6 weeks. Yes, we ended up ranked pretty high, I just hope we all haven't been deceived because of the level of competition.

I think we have something really, really special at the QB position. Guys like Cam don't come along every day. Were I in JR's shoes, my number 1 priority would be to give him and the rest of the team the absolute best staff available, and it doesn't seem to me we are anywhere near to that.

I know you will probably laugh at me for saying this, but Oakland's defense was actually not as bad as advertised. And San Diego and Atlanta (as you mentioned) actually had pretty good defenses.

And yes the beginning of the season was a bit of a drag, and yes we played some poor defenses at the end that may have padded some of our stats. The beginning of the year was rough, but I think both Chud and Cam were culpable in that with the help of some pretty good defenses that we faced.

But just from watching and re-watching the games, I really felt like a light bulb went on for Cam at the end of the season, and that had as much to do with our success as Chud or the teams we faced.

And I know it seems like I am defending the hire, but that is mainly because I think that the reaction has been a little over the top. But the truth is I am really indifferent about the hire. I understand the logic behind it. I also understand your logic about it.

But mostly, and this is probably not a good thing, I feel like this will go one of two ways, either it will work out and we will all be happy, or it won't and it will be short lived before we move on to a new staff.

[King Taharqa]

If he leaves, he will be a Cowboy. JR and JJ are good friends so compensation wont be a problem.

[ickmule]

Get real. I wish you negative "fans" would go find another team to "pull" for.

[Keith Moons Liver]

Cam will go to Denver once Peyton is done and become the next Elway.