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Continuity not Capability


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#31 Cyberjag

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 03:09 PM

Bigger name/proven success... what a concept!

#32 Growl

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 03:09 PM

I'd say this has a lot to do with Rivera not wanting to hire somebody who make his seat any warmer as well.

Jackson has HC experience and is expected to be one again someday. Shula was expected to spend the remaining duration of his coaching career as a questionable at best position coach.

Now there's nobody on the staff to burn Rivera off the seat if we start out 1-5 again (quite possible with this coaching staff) and Rivera gets another chance to save his job at seasons end by stringing together another four meaningless win and we get to watch the same teams go to the playoffs again for the next two years.

#33 Growl

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 03:11 PM

hey guys why don't we just run the ball and ground and pound our way to some sweet 7-9 records for the next 10 years!!

#34 Swaggasaurus

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 03:12 PM

Well, we've watched many other QB's young and old, and many of them make the same mistakes to.

Cam's accuracy is not horrible. It's just inconsistent, as Mister Scot said later/after. It was much worse, first half of 2012.

Nontheless, Eli Manning, who's a 2X Superbowl winning QB, overthrows receivers short and deep all the time. As a matter of fact, I would actually compare Cam's throwing--as similar to what Eli's is now (as far as his abilities, throws and inconsistencies). So that's not a bad thing, during his 2nd year. Eli was much worse at the same stage.

I think a better offensive line, and less READ Option play calling will help Cam with his accuracy next year. Doesn't mean he'll be perfect. But it should be an improvement. I also think, if the Panthers had taller receivers (or ones that could post up and fight for or comeback to the ball), that would help Cam's accuracy-consistency as well, especially throwing to the end zone. Plus, we gotta remember, some poor looking throws, can also be due to pressure or shortened or broken WR routes. That has happened as well, whether acknowledged by the TV analyst or not.

Cam definitely has to work at his craft, and be aware of succumbing to any bad habits. But he would certainly appear better with proper play action , more time/i.e. a better offensive line.

Thanks for your comments/feedback.

Oh I agree Cam will get better with more protection and less option. My only premise for posting in this thread was that running a power run or "simple" as some have stated offense with Cams big arm with PA shots down the field will give us the best option to win.

#35 Growl

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 03:15 PM

Yeah, but am I the only one that's judging Shula only on what he's done since he's been here?


been an average at best positional coach who made class time lots of fun and now has to pull double duty in a job he has had no success in and was never expected to garner any interest anywhere ever again by any competenty run franchise and now we get to watch Cam's mediocre footwork regress because his positional coach cant work with him because he's too busy trying to learn the offense we run

Continuity ftw brah.

#36 rodeo

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 03:18 PM

Cam's accuracy is still horrible, I am far from being anti Cam, but the guy struggles to hit RBs on screens, overthrows intermediate routes, and leads his receivers out of bounds when throwing deep towards the sidelines. You can score on the ground, we do more than we pass for scores.

Sounds like he's had a pretty shitty QB coach.

#37 FootballMaestro

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 03:22 PM

Yeah, but am I the only one that's judging Shula only on what he's done since he's been here?


Probably.

Cause how to you equate what he's done so far, with his ability to play call, and his past failures/resume in the future?

It doesn't mean he won't be a good coordinator. He may be great! He may have learned every bad lesson from the past, as well as Chud's, Cam's and this offense. Maybe?? Plus, Cam may make any coordinator look good. So I'm not going to predict failure. And we'll soon find out.

Nonetheless, it doesn't mute the contention, that the Panthers passed on a more qualified candidate in Hue Jackson, and what is says about the Panther organization and their commitment to winning, altogether.

In this case, the two premises co-exist, I guess (continuity for your QB and offense, vs a "better", more successful candidate, outside of it)? :unsure:

#38 Swaggasaurus

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 03:27 PM

Sounds like he's had a pretty shitty QB coach.

You can lead a horse to water...... Not saying Shula doesn't suck, but how do you know he's the problem?





#39 rayzor

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 03:27 PM

Ten years ago, things have likely changed. Everyone is probably better at their job than they were ten years ago. Shula has gained plenty of experience.

calling plays and running the offense?

you mean at alabama where he was just as bad or has there been another situation where he ran an offense and/or called plays?

I'd feel better if there were some more recent examples, esp. with more success.

at least chud was given some play calling responsibility prior to getting an OC job. whats shula been doing? serious question.

#40 CRA

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 03:30 PM

Sounds like he's had a pretty shitty QB coach.


Cam played 1 yr of legit college football....and has generated more offense in his first two seasons than anyone in NFL history. But yeah, his QB coach must be poo since he overthrows shorter routes on occasion.

#41 teeray

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 03:38 PM

Isn't that obvious?

Shula is Rivera's best hope at keeping his job. Not because he is the best OC available, but because he does not have to completely overhaul the current offense.

Hiring an outsider offensive coordinator would mean the entire offensive staff would be gone and a completely new offensive system in place. A new playbook. New terminology for the players to learn. New chemistry to be developed between players and coaches. Often, this can take more than one season to start yielding results.

Rivera does not have more than one season. If the Panthers do not win this year, he is gone. He knows it, everyone knows it.

So put yourself in his shoes. Knowing you can only lose 7 games next season or your ass is fired, would you

1: Hire a completely new offensive staff and implement a new system knowing in all likelyhood it will take a good of time to develop into a good offense if ever at all. or...

2. Promote from within and hope the current offense can be good enough to get you 9 wins. No learning curve, fewer variables.

Lets be clear here. The Shula hire was not made because he was the best candidate. Shula was hired because it presented the best option for Rivera to possibly win 9 games next season. It was a last ditch short term job saving hire. Any considerations past 2013 are an afterthought.


New England has done that ever since Brady and Belichik have gotten there. There are other candidates that might have better resumes but he promotes from within.

How is New England being doing these last couple of years, anyone know?? :P

#42 rayzor

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 03:39 PM

If the team is happy, then that is all that matters.

Next year will be a different iteration of 2010. Fox knew he was gone, so he half-assed it. Rivera knows his life as a head coach is on the line so he is pulling out all of the stops.

players being happy isn't all that matters. results are all that matters. winning is more important. you can be on a team with a great guy for a coach and still be losing, but hey...if the players are happy then its all good.

oh...and rivera knowing his job on the line or feeling the pressure won't make him better at his job. i mean it can, but it can also make him paranoid about making mistakes to the point that he suffers from paralysis from analysis and has no confidence in his playcalling and game management and he coaches scared and plays it safe or tries to instead of being bold when he should.

for a person who is prone to making bad decisions, putting the pressure on him may just make those decisions worse or compound the problem. i think he'll work hard, just like the rest of the coaches, but working hard doesn't always equal performing well.

#43 CRA

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 03:40 PM

at least chud was given some play calling responsibility prior to getting an OC job. whats shula been doing? serious question.


Only 5 years to look at since Alabama

Well, the last two have been spent at the QB coach for a young man that has more offensive production 2 yrs in than anyone in NFL history.

3 yrs prior? He spent coaching David Garrard how to play QB despite not having any WRs to throw to. Garrard all things considered wasn't bad and played pretty solid.

So what has he been doing? He has been coaching up QBs in the NFL and has a strong track record of doing such

#44 Growl

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 03:40 PM

New England has done that ever since Brady and Belichik have gotten there. There are other candidates that might have better resumes but he promotes from within.

How is New England being doing these last couple of years, anyone know?? :P



It's almost as if you actually dont get what the difference is.

#45 teeray

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 03:45 PM

It's almost as if you actually dont get what the difference is.


What is the difference then?? We have a top 10 offense the past couple of seasons (much, much better than Hue Jackson's offenses) and a coach that knows that offense inside and out.

So enlighten me. Maybe I am missing something.


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