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Continuity not Capability


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#106 MaineManPanther

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 06:31 PM

Continuity certainley played a well sized role in Shula's promotion. But to think that was the sole and/ or only big factor is naive.
Rivera is a intelligent enough man to know continuity does compensate for ineptitude.

This is Rivera's last chance, and he is fully aware that a bad OC can be seriously detrimental to said chance, regardless of possessing the same play book. He clearly has a certain level of confidence in Shula's OC ability.

Wether or not it pays off remains to be seen, but the hiring is a bit more deeper then just continuity

#107 Navy_football

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 08:44 PM

So, just out of curiosity... who teaches a QB to make back shoulder throws? I'm not sure I've ever seen Cam try to make one. Do the Panthers need to bring in a QB coach that can teach that art to Cam? I've seen Kaepernick, Russel Wilson, RG3 and Luck make that throw this year, but I can't ever recall Cam doing it.

#108 FootballMaestro

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 08:54 PM

So, just out of curiosity... who teaches a QB to make back shoulder throws? I'm not sure I've ever seen Cam try to make one. Do the Panthers need to bring in a QB coach that can teach that art to Cam? I've seen Kaepernick, Russel Wilson, RG3 and Luck make that throw this year, but I can't ever recall Cam doing it.


I think that's more an Offensive Philosophy Direction, rather than a "Can Cam Make This Throw" issue.

#109 Navy_football

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 09:18 PM

I think that's more an Offensive Philosophy Direction, rather than a "Can Cam Make This Throw" issue.

I think it's a technique used by QBs to throw their receivers open in tight coverage. All of the elite QBs use it, but I don't see Cam doing it.

I don't question whether or not he can make the throw. But I'd imagine it's something he'd need to practice with his receivers a great deal to become proficient and to get everyone on the same page - kind of like timing routes.

#110 FootballMaestro

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 09:41 PM

I think it's a technique used by QBs to throw their receivers open in tight coverage. All of the elite QBs use it, but I don't see Cam doing it.

I don't question whether or not he can make the throw. But I'd imagine it's something he'd need to practice with his receivers a great deal to become proficient and to get everyone on the same page - kind of like timing routes.


Well, after so many of us criticized the OC move this weekend. The Ball's Now in Mike Shula's court.

And I have the feeling, that Cam, him and the receivers, are going to have a lot more freedom to do the things they want, liked (and what they felt worked), than when Chud was there.

I guess we all pray, Shula has learned a lot from his previous gigs, watching Cam, Chud and the Panthers the past few years.

If he remains the QB coach, I guess this means Cam will spend a lot of time with him as OC. However, how much individual time will he have to spend with Cam as QB coach?

We'll see?

#111 csx

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 08:30 AM

Isn't that obvious?

Shula is Rivera's best hope at keeping his job. Not because he is the best OC available, but because he does not have to completely overhaul the current offense.

Hiring an outsider offensive coordinator would mean the entire offensive staff would be gone and a completely new offensive system in place. A new playbook. New terminology for the players to learn. New chemistry to be developed between players and coaches. Often, this can take more than one season to start yielding results.

Rivera does not have more than one season. If the Panthers do not win this year, he is gone. He knows it, everyone knows it.

So put yourself in his shoes. Knowing you can only lose 7 games next season or your ass is fired, would you

1: Hire a completely new offensive staff and implement a new system knowing in all likelyhood it will take a good of time to develop into a good offense if ever at all. or...

2. Promote from within and hope the current offense can be good enough to get you 9 wins. No learning curve, fewer variables.

Lets be clear here. The Shula hire was not made because he was the best candidate. Shula was hired because it presented the best option for Rivera to possibly win 9 games next season. It was a last ditch short term job saving hire. Any considerations past 2013 are an afterthought.


Are you attempting to say, with a straight face, that with this logic you would prefer installing a new offense that would take multiple years to install and create chemistry? You would prefer to win even less games next year and that somehow that is what the fans and coaches and players and owner should want?

I think you have come to a conclusion and are just going to twist and turn your logic to say what you want to say...it really doesn't matter about actual logic anymore does it?.Just stop and think what you are actually trying to say here....it's pretty funny.

#112 Cyberjag

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 08:41 AM

Just curious...

When did it suddenly start requiring several years of study and a dissertation to change an offense? Up until this off-season, teams used to do it all the time. The Panthers did it with Henning's Coryell to Davidson's Erhardt-Perkins, and many other teams have also made similar changes without necessarily suffering too terribly. And if the new offense was just another variant of Coryelll, then all the players would really have to learn is maybe some new code words. In only six months, of course.

I get that the complexities of an offense change somewhat bolster the arguments for Shula. What I'm curious about is when they became so dang insurmountable for professionals. And also, are they insurmountable for other teams as well? In other words, will next year see a ton of the teams that have changed offenses suddenly struggle to score, or would that have only happened to the Panthers if they didn't retain Shula?

#113 Zod

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 08:42 AM

Are you attempting to say, with a straight face, that with this logic you would prefer installing a new offense that would take multiple years to install and create chemistry?



No, lets put it off another year and enjoy yet another losing season. Meanwhile Cam's contract is running out...

Pay now, or pay later.

#114 FootballMaestro

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 08:52 AM

Just curious...

When did it suddenly start requiring several years of study and a dissertation to change an offense? Up until this off-season, teams used to do it all the time. The Panthers did it with Henning's Coryell to Davidson's Erhardt-Perkins, and many other teams have also made similar changes without necessarily suffering too terribly. And if the new offense was just another variant of Coryelll, then all the players would really have to learn is maybe some new code words. In only six months, of course.

I get that the complexities of an offense change somewhat bolster the arguments for Shula. What I'm curious about is when they became so dang insurmountable for professionals. And also, are they insurmountable for other teams as well? In other words, will next year see a ton of the teams that have changed offenses suddenly struggle to score, or would that have only happened to the Panthers if they didn't retain Shula?


To my knowledge, teams change coordinators and offenses (like Atlanta recently), all the time with out missing a beat. Of course some don't. But it's not the uncommon or insurmountable undertaking the some of us make it out to be. It just requires extra off/early season study to learn the playbook or terminology (especially as you said, it's a similar system), before the upcoming seasons practices.

#115 Snake

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 08:55 AM

I can't believe people are justifying this hire. It was a scared man's call that showed Rivera has no intentions on winning. We will have to bear threw another season till he gets poo canned. I just hope we adjust some contracts this year so the next coach has something to work with.

#116 csx

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 09:01 AM

Rivera is on the hot seat and has no intentions of winning?

#117 panthers55

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 09:45 AM

Just curious...

When did it suddenly start requiring several years of study and a dissertation to change an offense? Up until this off-season, teams used to do it all the time. The Panthers did it with Henning's Coryell to Davidson's Erhardt-Perkins, and many other teams have also made similar changes without necessarily suffering too terribly. And if the new offense was just another variant of Coryelll, then all the players would really have to learn is maybe some new code words. In only six months, of course.

I get that the complexities of an offense change somewhat bolster the arguments for Shula. What I'm curious about is when they became so dang insurmountable for professionals. And also, are they insurmountable for other teams as well? In other words, will next year see a ton of the teams that have changed offenses suddenly struggle to score, or would that have only happened to the Panthers if they didn't retain Shula?


I think people here are assuming the point of continuity was a sacrifice of scheme or potential to get decent results now at the expense of performance later and I don't think that is what the Panthers did at all. Rivera likes the system and what we are doing on offense the last half of the season. He wants to continue that success and wants Shula to continue to work with Newton and develop him like he did other QBs before him. He looked at other candidates with Gettleman and they decided that promoting Shula was the best move. Not a one year fix to help save Rivera's butt but the the best move to keep the offense going strong.

You can argue all day it was right or wrong but no one will know until the Fall. That won't stop people from bitching and complaining for the next 6 months about how bad it will be, but I for one am going to see what he can do. Who is to say that he isn't ready? If this were Rivera's decision alone then it might be one sided and just for the near future but Gettleman was in on the interviews as well so I think it was more of a long term decision.

#118 panthers55

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 09:47 AM

I can't believe people are justifying this hire. It was a scared man's call that showed Rivera has no intentions on winning. We will have to bear threw another season till he gets poo canned. I just hope we adjust some contracts this year so the next coach has something to work with.


No evidence to point to this at all. Gettleman was in on the interviews so it wasn't all Rivera. Plus he interviewed Shula after the other guys so obviously the other candidates were not exactly what they were looking for. They chose Shula as the best candidate for better or worse.

#119 FootballMaestro

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 10:07 AM

No evidence to point to this at all. Gettleman was in on the interviews so it wasn't all Rivera. Plus he interviewed Shula after the other guys so obviously the other candidates were not exactly what they were looking for. They chose Shula as the best candidate for better or worse.


Not saying you're saying/know this: But both Gettleman and Rivera were supposedly in on the interviews.

Sorry, if you knew that.

#120 panthers55

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 10:11 AM

Not saying you're saying/know this: But both Gettleman and Rivera were supposedly in on the interviews.

Sorry, if you knew that.


That is what I just said......


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