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Who is Jim Harbaugh?


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#136 rayzor

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 02:12 PM

For God's sake, give me any substantial shred of evidence in favor of Harbaugh being an elite coach. Just one! Tell me, rayzor, what schematic ingenuity has Harbaugh brought to the NFL?

lol you're looking at the wrong stuff, or at least different stuff.

first, he's as smart as any coach in the league. not smarter than all, but as smart as anyone.

what sets him apart is his management skills. he'd be incredibly successful leading any organization because of what he does.

he surrounds himself with a great staff.

he gets his players to buy into his vision of what he wants to do.

they know what's expected of them and puts them in situation to get better.

his players are better prepared than they ever were for game days before.

his confidence in himself and his team transfers over to the players around him. they firmly believe that nobody has it better than them. in fact that is essentially their war cry.

he's taken three programs now and turned them around completely. he made them respectable and essentially dominant in their setting. he did this buy pulling out of his players what they needed to win. he constantly put them in the right situations and didn't get in their way. he guided them to wins.

is harbaugh considered arrogant? yep. is it deserved? yep. the thing is that he transfers that onto his players. he's not liked by his peers, but neither is coughlin and belichick. neither is cam, for that matter. but that's not important. what is important is doing your job. win. get your players to win. and that's what he does and has done better than anyone in the NFC these last couple years and he did it with a mediocre team.

schematically....he makes the right calls at the right times. he's not perfect, but he knows the game and he knows how to manage it. he flat out knows how to run a team. he knows how to lead. he knows how to manage.

you don't have to be the smartest coach on the field to win. you don't have to have the best players on the field to win. you do have to make the right decisions with those players and put them in the right situations and you have to get them to play above the level they might otherwise play. you have to be able to get your players to do their job better than the other team. that's what he does.

#137 pstall

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 02:16 PM

yep. the double blind test reveals much.

sometimes isn't always a masterful adjustment that wins. sometimes its the OTHER teams lack of adjusting or staying the same.

the falcons had no answer for vernon davis, or at least didn't want to try to.

contrast that with the ravens. at the half bill cowher was adament about letting flacco open it up. he and everyone else saw it. that early drive in the 2nd half they threw from the shotgun like 9 times on one drive.

sometimes a good kick in the butt halftime speech can right the ship and you play your game a lil better and make stops.

im not saying Jim Harbaugh is elite, not yet. but fiery you are projecting that elite stuff on to many but doing the opposite in saying how overrated he is.

he is neither overrated nor elite.

#138 fieryprophet

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 02:17 PM

Once again, you're being recalcitrant and trying to purport a false argument ("prove that Harbaugh is actually a good manager", despite the fact that we haven't heard any fall out on him making bad moves--like with Rivera, and have heard nothing but praise from fans, reporters and players, regarding the very same thing).

Go ask Colin Kaepernick or Alex Smith, about his management, talent evaluation, procurement, decision making skills? One of them was a career bust, who was great last year. Now he's sitting on the bench, watching a raw, unproven QB take his job and win the NFC Championship, they lost last year.

And the last that I knew, Harbaugh's team is going to the super bowl, which is an improvement over what they did the previous year. I'm sure any coach, would take one less loss, or a lesser regular season record, to make the Superbowl, after losing during the Conference Finals the previous year.

This truly shows how out of touch you're apparent blind, rabid infatuation of Harbaugh, has pushed you over the edge clear thinking.

So if anyone is not making their argument here (and continually slipping into a slippery slope of confounding murkiness), it would be you.


We'll just have to agree to disagree, and let it go. I'm glad you feel so strongly about your thoughts.


Again, a non-answer. And I assure you, Harbaugh does not get universally glowing reviews from everywhere. His own media generally considers him an arrogant jerk who glories in the accomplishments of his team and refuses to accept blame. I find it fascinating that my generally lucid and forthright comments on Harbaugh are written off as rapid homerism when anyone who's read through my comments generally find I make logical and defensible arguments on why I feel the way i do. You don't have to agree with me either, but to slight me by accusing me of fanaticism or homerism just shows the futility of your own arguments.

#139 fieryprophet

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 02:20 PM

lol you're looking at the wrong stuff, or at least different stuff.

first, he's as smart as any coach in the league. not smarter than all, but as smart as anyone.

what sets him apart is his management skills. he'd be incredibly successful leading any organization because of what he does.

he surrounds himself with a great staff.

he gets his players to buy into his vision of what he wants to do.

they know what's expected of them and puts them in situation to get better.

his players are better prepared than they ever were for game days before.

his confidence in himself and his team transfers over to the players around him. they firmly believe that nobody has it better than them. in fact that is essentially their war cry.

he's taken three programs now and turned them around completely. he made them respectable and essentially dominant in their setting. he did this buy pulling out of his players what they needed to win. he constantly put them in the right situations and didn't get in their way. he guided them to wins.

is harbaugh considered arrogant? yep. is it deserved? yep. the thing is that he transfers that onto his players. he's not liked by his peers, but neither is coughlin and belichick. neither is cam, for that matter. but that's not important. what is important is doing your job. win. get your players to win. and that's what he does and has done better than anyone in the NFC these last couple years and he did it with a mediocre team.

schematically....he makes the right calls at the right times. he's not perfect, but he knows the game and he knows how to manage it. he flat out knows how to run a team. he knows how to lead. he knows how to manage.

you don't have to be the smartest coach on the field to win. you don't have to have the best players on the field to win. you do have to make the right decisions with those players and put them in the right situations and you have to get them to play above the level they might otherwise play. you have to be able to get your players to do their job better than the other team. that's what he does.


All of that sounds great, but I've seen this EXACT scenario before: Mike Ditka. Mike Ditka was a great, Super Bowl winning coach and worthy of praise despite his arrogance and smaryminess right until. . .his true skills showed, and he traded away an entire draft for Ricky frickin' Williams. Again, my argument has been that Harbaugh is not an elite coach, not that he isn't a good coach. He's obviously a good coach, but he's shown me NOTHING that makes me think he has the capacity to be better than that, and I'll be very curious to see how he performs when the talent level around him diminishes.

#140 SZ James

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 02:25 PM

Again with the backpedaling from your earlier statements. The whole thing about good vs. elite thing is something you made up just recently to save face. Good coaches don't get fired a few years after they make it to the super bowl.

No one is saying the elite thing but you homie.

#141 rayzor

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 02:27 PM

Is a good coach like a good CEO?

We know, thanks to Jim Harbaugh of the 49ers, that a mediocre team, can, without changing much of the personnel, become great with a new leader in charge. One change at the top, and a sad sack turns into a championship contender.

But how?

Nancy Ross knows how. She's an executive coach. Usually in the employ of Silicon Valley technology companies, Ross says a good leader can alter the landscape of a football team, just like it can alter the landscape of a struggling company. "He or she has to get what's really going on there," Ross says, "and then, it's all about whether people working for the executive have confidence in that person."

It doesn't always work, of course. Dynamic, passionate leaders come and go in the sports world, just like they do in executive boardrooms. But, Ross says, when people really believe in the message and the process, things can change in a hurry. Ross says when a new leader takes over, you'll know within 30 days if the troops are buying in.

During Harbaugh's press conference after the big win over the Saints, someone asked him how his team got so much better so quickly. His answer, "how can we get better than yesterday? If we can get one percent better each day, we're 30 percent better in 30 days" sounds like an executive, hired to get a one proud company back on track.
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Ross says it's the little things that make a great CEO, or coach. "People skills to convey confidence" are big. Getting those around you to buy in .. just as important.
http://www.nbcbayare...-137765698.html

There's a story San Francisco 49ers head coach Jim Harbaugh told his team not too long ago, one that has quickly turned into an inspirational message for a squad that has surprised everybody with its 7-1 start. It's about Harbaugh's childhood as the youngest son of former longtime college coach Jack Harbaugh, back when his family never complained about constant moving or tiny, cramped homes. Jack actually would get so energized while driving his kids around that he'd shout, "Who has it better than us?" Every time, Jim would scream with his older brother John and younger sister Julie, "Nobody!"

When Harbaugh told this story, he didn't rely on predictable histrionics or dramatic embellishments. He delivered the tale the same way he usually speaks, with a clear, measured tone designed to drive home the larger point. If the 49ers wanted to look at their circumstances heading into this season -- the most notable being a mere six weeks to get acclimated to their first-year coach after the NFL lockout -- they could find ample reason to wilt. If they wanted to do what Harbaugh did back in the day, which was focus intensely on the positives, they might just create magic.

It's a message that has so resonated with the 49ers that they chant "Nobody!" every time Harbaugh yells, "Who has it better than us?" after practices and games.

"We ran with it," 49ers inside linebacker Patrick Willis said. "The whole point is that no matter what people say on the outside, we have enough for what we need. I don't know if he meant for that to become a motivational story but that's exactly what it is now."
http://www.likeateam...m-jim-harbaugh/

Linebacker Patrick Willis noticed Harbaugh's unique approach early on in camp when Harbaugh would come to team meals. "Normally, you'll see guys wanting to get up and leave the cafeteria when the coach comes in. But he comes in and talks to everybody. He'll sit down with the starters. He'll sit down with the guys on the practice squad. I saw him once walk up to a table where all the seats were taken and he just found a way to squeeze right into space between a couple guys. And nobody left."http://www.footballs...s-got-it-better

What Harbaugh has done as a head coach, in college at Stanford, and now in the NFL by taking the San Franciscon 49ers to the Super Bowl, has been monumental.

It’s amazing how the 49ers are considered the NFL’s most-talented overall team. In 2010, the season before Harbargh arrived, the 49ers were 6-10. They hadn’t compiled a winning record in eight years. They were a study in NFL dysfunction. Mike Singletary, the previous coach, was a dignified Hall of Fame linebacker, a teammate of Harbaugh with the Chicago Bears, who could not control his squad.

The 49ers have reached the Super Bowl for the first time since the salad days of Bill Walsh and George Seifert at head coach, and Joe Montana and Steve Young at quarterback They started winning immediately under Harbaugh. They lost, narrowly, to the Giants in the NFC championship game last year. Sunday, they trailed the Falcons 17-0 on the road - and still won.

This is not new. It is, rather, Harbaugh’s second so-called miracle. Stanford was 1-11 the season before he took over. He was soon upsetting the likes of USC, when it was at its very best during its scandal-marred days of Pete Carroll, and then eventually dominating the PAC 12 Conference. Stanford was 12-1 Harbaugh’s last season there.

These weren’t just building programs. These were lightning fast bottom-to-top turnarounds.

In the process, Harbaugh has had these moments that have made him the coach many love to hate.
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Harbaugh has, what tactful people refer to, as a “strong personality.”

Maybe that’s what make him a great coach. It’s incredible how team-oriented the 49ers have become. Keeping Colin Kaepernick at quarterback after Alex Smith returned from a concussion was one of the gustiest moves ever by NFL coach. Smith was playing very well before he was hurt, but Kaepernick is clearly better.

If the 49ers win the Super Bowl, there will many people across the football landscape muttering under their breath: "That &%#@^ Harbaugh."

Jim Harbaugh isn’t necessarily liked, but it is impossible not to respect what he has accomplished as a coach.

It has been unquestionably brilliant.
http://www.pressandg...wmode=fullstory



#142 fieryprophet

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 02:28 PM

I think the real issue for people like FP is that if the Panther's FO somehow landed Jim Harbaugh, he wouldn't be this adamant about how overrated he is. He would be saying the exact opposite actually. When you base your understanding purely on "Well the panthers did it this way, so it's right move and I'm gonna defend it no matter what", you're already hopeless.

Teeray and dozens of other posters fall into this trap every single day. Take the blind test. Ask yourself, if all you had to go by was "Coach A" and "Coach B" or "Team A" and "Team B", would your opinion change?


That's a logically fallacy, though, because Team A != Team B, therefore you're not judging them on an equal plane. Everyone acts as if the Panthers are equivalent to the 49ers, when we're not. We have some better pieces in some areas, they have better pieces in more areas.

#143 SZ James

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 02:33 PM

Yeah one team wears blue and the other one doesn't. An important factor when comparing them.

#144 fieryprophet

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 02:35 PM


You left out a more telling piece form your fluff articles on Harbaugh:

This isn’t the only way the specter of Jim Harbaugh is haunting this state. As the Rich Rodriguez experiment failed miserably at Michigan, while Harbaugh was leading Stanford to such stunning success, he became the most logical choice for the Michigan job. Oh, except, he had much publicized tiff with several people associated with the Michigan program early in his tenure at Stanford. He questioned the academic integrity of Michigan’s football program. Former Michigan running back Mike Hart went as far as to say Harbaugh isn’t a Michigan man. His former teammate, Jamie Morris, one of Michigan’s all-time best running back, also ripped him, as did then head coach Lloyd Carr, who referred to Harbaugh’s thoughts as “elitist.”

I criticized Carr harshly for allowing this. Harbaugh’s comments seemed innocent enough. I couldn’t have been more wrong. A few years later, an academic think tank revealed Stanford had an academic program specifically designed for athletes. Harbaugh’s comments were worse than being “elitist.” They were phony.


Think about the history with Harbaugh, as a successful man who's also a notable liar. Not a twister of the truth: a liar.

He lied about his interest in Peyton Manning.

He lied about Alex Smith being an elite QB.

He lied about his reasons for sticking with Kaepernick.

Harbaugh may be reaping a lot of credit for his actions now, but how long can his arrogance and lies allow the team to continue to buy in to what he sells? Again, we haven't seen any real struggles for the 49ers, and no test of his mettle in dire situations. It's all come up roses. But I see seeds that have been sown that will reap very dark fruits for Harbaugh in the future, hence my earlier proclamation about him being fired within a few years time.

#145 fieryprophet

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 02:36 PM

Yeah one team wears blue and the other one doesn't. An important factor when comparing them.


You're a goddamn idiot if you believe these teams are equivalent.

#146 rayzor

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 02:38 PM

what was stanford before he got there? nothing.

what were the 49ers before he got there? a non-winning, average at best team looking for their first winning season in 8 years.

he took what was there and provided the leadership, guidance, instruction, management, and motivation necessary for the 49ers to get to the NFCCG twice in his first two years as coach, winning the second.

results are all that matter. would he do as well with lesser talent? probably not, but would he turn that team around completely and make them much better than they have been in years? absolutely.

would he have done better than rivera with the panthers? i have no doubt he would have because he had several things going for him that rivera didn't. he had experience. he had a proven track record. and he had a better staff.

he knew what he was doing when he landed in san fran. rivera here....not so much.

he was also much better prepared for being a HC than rivera, and i don't just mean in 2011.

since rivera left the playing field, his concentration has been on how to make defenses better. something that he has excelled in.

harbaugh, since leaving the playing field, has been concentrating on how to make a whole team better. he's spent more of his post playing career on learning how to to do the job than rivera.

can rivera be a great head coach? i dunno. he's got a lot to prove. harbaugh, though, has done nothing but prove he can be one.

#147 pstall

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 02:39 PM

You're a goddamn idiot if you believe these teams are equivalent.




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#148 SZ James

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 02:41 PM

I'm not saying they're equal. If everything was the exact same but with their names switched, your opinion would be the exact opposite to go along with whatever The Carolina Panthers do.

That's where the fallacy comes in.

#149 rayzor

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 02:43 PM

You left out a more telling piece form your fluff articles on Harbaugh:



Think about the history with Harbaugh, as a successful man who's also a notable liar. Not a twister of the truth: a liar.

He lied about his interest in Peyton Manning.

He lied about Alex Smith being an elite QB.

He lied about his reasons for sticking with Kaepernick.

Harbaugh may be reaping a lot of credit for his actions now, but how long can his arrogance and lies allow the team to continue to buy in to what he sells? Again, we haven't seen any real struggles for the 49ers, and no test of his mettle in dire situations. It's all come up roses. But I see seeds that have been sown that will reap very dark fruits for Harbaugh in the future, hence my earlier proclamation about him being fired within a few years time.

i left it out because it wasn't important about him running a successful program. i did say that he wasn't liked and he was arrogant, did i not? did i do anything to hide from that.

it has no bearing on his coaching, though. i'm not surprised in your grasping at straw approach to arguing that harbaugh isn't as good as people think that you'd grasp at that one.

he does what it takes to get his team better. he does what it takes to make his team dominant. that's what you look for. i don't care how "smart" or how much of an expert someone is when i'm looking for a leader. i'm looking for someone who makes the people around them the best, and that's exactly what he does.

that "pro-bowl" talent he "inherited"...how many of those guys had been selected to the probowl when he got there? how much more are the achieving as individuals and as a group compared to before he got there?

#150 fieryprophet

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 02:43 PM

what was stanford before he got there? nothing.

what were the 49ers before he got there? a non-winning, average at best team looking for their first winning season in 8 years.

he took what was there and provided the leadership, guidance, instruction, management, and motivation necessary for the 49ers to get to the NFCCG twice in his first two years as coach, winning the second.

results are all that matter. would he do as well with lesser talent? probably not, but would he turn that team around completely and make them much better than they have been in years? absolutely.

would he have done better than rivera with the panthers? i have no doubt he would have because he had several things going for him that rivera didn't. he had experience. he had a proven track record. and he had a better staff.

he knew what he was doing when he landed in san fran. rivera here....not so much.

he was also much better prepared for being a HC than rivera, and i don't just mean in 2011.

since rivera left the playing field, his concentration has been on how to make defenses better. something that he has excelled in.

harbaugh, since leaving the playing field, has been concentrating on how to make a whole team better. he's spent more of his post playing career on learning how to to do the job than rivera.

can rivera be a great head coach? i dunno. he's got a lot to prove. harbaugh, though, has done nothing but prove he can be one.


I find it fascinating how no one can provide any tangible evidence for these attributes of Harbaugh, they just say it is because. . it is. Apparently John Fox never left Carolina.


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