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The league's only black OC makes it to the Super Bowl....


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#76 X-Clown

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 11:50 AM

Fair enough. Why do you think there are so few black OCs and QB coaches in NFL history? Why are those jobs EXCLUSIVELY white? And do you think thats impacted peoples reluctance to believe in black QBs so long? Or how to best use them being OCs and QB coaches are pivotal to a QB? Do you think that could possibly put them at a disadvantage on a social level in comparison to white QBs?


My only point was that I didn't think Jim Caldwell not being looked as a head coach this postseason was evidence that he's being held down in any way from being a head coach.

As far as the lack of OCs in the NFL, it's something I hadn't really noticed or thought about up until this point. And QB coaches, I couldn't have named 95% of them without googling much less know the racial makeup of them. But if the numbers are skewed that much in favor of whites only, I'd have to agree that you have a solid point. The only counterpoint that I can think of (and this is entirely anecdotal on my end, and possibly can/will be proven wrong) is that most QB coaches at least have some background playing the position, and the position has been historically white. Hue Jackson is a guy who did play QB and has been able to land 3 offensive coordinator jobs (I wish it would have been 4 but that's another story).


That being said, I would find it tough to draw the conclusion of whether the lack of black OCs/QB coaches effects fan's mindsets about black QBs though. I can't think of a time I've ever heard some of the most bigoted people say that they would be opposed to having a black OC or black QB coach, whereas we've seen the "character attacks" that guys like Cam have had to endure that have more than a hint of bigotry behind it. It's a good question I would have for owners/GMs/head coaches.

#77 thefuzz

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 01:00 PM

Before jumping all over this topic, I would like to know how many black players want to be in coaching.

#78 King Taharqa

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 01:53 PM

That being said, I would find it tough to draw the conclusion of whether the lack of black OCs/QB coaches effects fan's mindsets about black QBs though. I can't think of a time I've ever heard some of the most bigoted people say that they would be opposed to having a black OC or black QB coach, whereas we've seen the "character attacks" that guys like Cam have had to endure that have more than a hint of bigotry behind it. It's a good question I would have for owners/GMs/head coaches.


My point about the lack of black QB coaches and OCs is it speaks to the problem that people don't feel blacks are capable of leading on the offensive side of the ball. And having more would help those QBs transition. It might also help coaches learn how to use these QBs properly, because its seemed like they are just now starting to learn how. Having someone who might've been in the same situation before or maybe can relate to them more would help. I feel alot of these OCs and QB coaches "stick with what they know" and who they are most comfortable with which isnt always whats best for the game of football. There's a plethora of black DCs and position coaches and if you talk to the players, some of those coaches have helped them tremendously grow and get better at their respective positions. Not having that on the offensive side of the ball explains to me why people felt reluctant or at least questioned could a black person "grasp" offense.

And with the league shifting to offense, having most of your black position coaches coming from a defensive background is gonna leave them jobless as for head coaching gigs. So I'd like to see more opportunities open up not just at the head coaching level but offensive coordinator, QB coach.

#79 King Taharqa

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 01:54 PM

Before jumping all over this topic, I would like to know how many black players want to be in coaching.


Plenty. And plenty of them who are assistants in the league have voiced concerns over hiring processes. Its a big reason why the Rooney Rule even exists.

#80 Hawk

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 01:56 PM

I promised long ago that I wouldn't get into the race thing with you anymore KT...and I'm sticking to that.

just a honest question though about the Rooney rule...is that in itself not discrimination? I understand and appreciate the intent of it, but I have a hard time accepting that it isn't discrimination. Any thoughts?

#81 King Taharqa

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 02:03 PM

I promised long ago that I wouldn't get into the race thing with you anymore KT...and I'm sticking to that.

just a honest question though about the Rooney rule...is that in itself not discrimination? I understand and appreciate the intent of it, but I have a hard time accepting that it isn't discrimination. Any thoughts?


What white coaches were discriminated or refused jobs due to the Rooney Rule? 29 out of 32 head coaches in the NFL are caucasion, thats 90% correct? Up until December, 32 out of 32 offensive coordinators were white. Is that putting white people at a disadvantage? Are the majority of NFL coaches "minorities"? I don't understand how the Rooney Rule is hurting white coaches who want jobs. It was intended to bring much needed balance in the coaching ranks to a sport that is dependent and relies heavily on blacks.

#82 Hawk

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 02:10 PM

first...it's an opinion that much needed balance is required

second...any rule that states you must include people solely due to the color of their skin is 100% discrimination

it's these types of attitudes that enforce to me that discrimination will never go away

#83 King Taharqa

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 02:13 PM

I noticed you didnt answer my question. How has the Rooney Rule hurt white coaches looking for head coaching jobs?

#84 Hawk

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 02:16 PM

I didn't answer because I don't know...I've not been involved with the hiring or interviewing of coaches. In my personal opinion, the Rooney Rule potentially eliminates some candidates because they do not fall into the target group that the rule is applying to.

Quotas = discrimination

#85 King Taharqa

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 02:22 PM

I didn't answer because I don't know...I've not been involved with the hiring or interviewing of coaches. In my personal opinion, the Rooney Rule potentially eliminates some candidates because they do not fall into the target group that the rule is applying to.

Quotas = discrimination


Hawk why doesnt the field reflect the front office and coaching staffs? Why arent the majority of NFL players white? And why isnt it considered discrimination?

#86 Hawk

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 02:27 PM

never once did I say I agreed with any of that sir. I have no idea. I'm sure there's owners that belong in the good ole boys club that have strong roots back to the day of racism, sure. At the same time though, who says black coaches would be any better than white? you make a statement earlier on that basically implies that only a black coach might understand and get the most out of his black quarterback and a black OC might have a better offence for the same reason. How do you know these things and is this not racism as well?

#87 King Taharqa

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 02:38 PM

never once did I say I agreed with any of that sir. I have no idea. I'm sure there's owners that belong in the good ole boys club that have strong roots back to the day of racism, sure. At the same time though, who says black coaches would be any better than white?


Who's to say they are worse? We don't know unless they are given an opportunity and that is all thats being asked.


you make a statement earlier on that basically implies that only a black coach might understand and get the most out of his black quarterback and a black OC might have a better offence for the same reason. How do you know these things and is this not racism as well?


A black Qbs experience differs from that of white QBs on this level. So having someone who's been there, who has experience dealing with the things black QBs deal with would aid GREATLY. You don't think being a mentee of HOF QB Warren Moon didnt help Cam be better prepared to be the Panthers QB? You think Warren Moon didnt share his experiences of being a black QB in the NFL with Cam? Having someone you can relate to who's been there and has experience always helps. This is something the white QBs have enjoyed since the game begin.

#88 Hawk

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 02:47 PM

I didn't say they would be worse...not in the least...but it seems you are putting alot of faith in them being better.

and of course Warren Moon would have helped Cam...but I don't think any differently than he would have helped any other quarterback under the same circumstances.

I don't really think people differentiate based on other people's skin color as much as you think they do and on this, you and I will never agree and that's totally ok.

#89 Cage

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 03:09 PM

80% of the league is black and the vast majority of coaches are white. That is a problem and everyone should at least be able to agree on that fact....unless you feel that blacks simply lack what it takes to be coaches. Even if black former players were for some reason less inclined to pursue opportunities in coaching, there should still be more black coaches. This is a problem that needs to be fixed.

#90 AppStatePanther

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 03:33 PM

I think chris weinke helped cam alot too.


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