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Your Hi-Point Carbine, Banned.


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#46 Kral

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 06:56 PM

The point catowar is making. This ban is poorly constructed and ill conceived. This isn't the fix.


I agree this ban is both ill-conceived and poorly constructed.

#47 mmmbeans

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 07:09 PM

The point catowar is making. This ban is poorly constructed and ill conceived. This isn't the fix.


true... but frankly, this is a bit of a boy-who-cried-wolf situation... the problem is, whenever anybody brings up gun control, the reaction is EXACTLY the same, regardless of the severity of the measure... so the end result is this... you get legislation rammed down your throat because you (pro-gun peoples) have marginalized yourself from any actual productive conversation. I agree that people generally don't use rifles for crime and consequently, this ban will do very little (if anything.) Would you prefer that handgun restriction be on the table? Because that's the elephant in the room.

This is a token measure to make the stupids (present company excluded) feel safe with as little collateral damage to the gun culture as possible. Literally ANY other regulation would've been more restrictive and more invasive. Do you expect the populace at large not to react to pervasive violence? Are you surprised by their reactions? In a witch-hunt (because, realistically, that's what this is) do you expect smugness, bad metaphors and bumper-stickers to hold up your end of the argument? Because... look around you... That's all that's left.

People in this country F*CKING LOVE GUNS... when it gets to the point that the populace as a whole is supportive of restrictions... the NRA, the gun lobby (and it's ilk) got sloppy, took everyone for granted and now... they done f*cked up. They should be leading these discussions... instead, they act like petulant children.

#48 Kurb

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 07:10 PM

Be that as it may I think that this issue is like treating a cough when your patient has gonorrhea. Firearms are not as big an issue as mental health and poverty. Those are the two driving forces behind murder. Not what weapons any given person might posses. The fact is if you outlaw catapults then only outlaws will have catapults.

As such this firearm controversy to me has been utterly terrifying and stupefying. We will do ANYTHING to avoid dealing with poverty and mental health or really any issue that cannot be explained away with just a few talking points.



Gov doesn't want those things to change. They want us poor and doped up....aaaaaaannnnnndddddd disarmed.

#49 PhillyB

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 07:12 PM

I find the majority of the anti firearm crowd to be jaded bitter cowards. With certain exceptions.
Most if you are really pathetic and have no pride in yourself, your rights, or the rights of others.

You await whatever your next master may be.


how do you define "anti-firearm" though? i understand the importance of needing to allow lawful citizens the right to bear arms for the simple fact that guns have proliferated to the extent they have in the U.S., but i also believe some measure of responsible legislation needs to be passed in order to regulate ownership and keep them in the hands of people that aren't going to do something stupid with them. some would refer to me as "anti-firearm" because of this view but i don't think that's accurate.

maybe we have had different experiences but the vast majority of people i know who could be described as "anti-firearm" (and none of them have called for an all-out ban because they're sane) are neither jaded, nor bitter, nor cowardly. i'm not sure that's an accurate characterization.

#50 Kurb

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 07:23 PM

how do you define "anti-firearm" though? i understand the importance of needing to allow lawful citizens the right to bear arms for the simple fact that guns have proliferated to the extent they have in the U.S., but i also believe some measure of responsible legislation needs to be passed in order to regulate ownership and keep them in the hands of people that aren't going to do something stupid with them. some would refer to me as "anti-firearm" because of this view but i don't think that's accurate.

maybe we have had different experiences but the vast majority of people i know who could be described as "anti-firearm" (and none of them have called for an all-out ban because they're sane) are neither jaded, nor bitter, nor cowardly. i'm not sure that's an accurate characterization.


You are right. That post was wrong of me and added nothing to the conversation. I should have been more clear and less attackmode

#51 Murph

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 07:24 PM

I'm confused by this article. All the do-gooders are telling me an AR-15 is nothing but a killing machine and has no use in home defense. New York seems to be leading the way with this kind of ranting. And yet


http://www.13wham.co...kwgAZpGO4g.cspx

#52 Kral

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 07:24 PM

Gov doesn't want those things to change. They want us poor and doped up....aaaaaaannnnnndddddd disarmed.


I'm not sure that these things are in the government's best interest at all. In fact for our actual government a wealthy and healthy populace are very good things.

For the shadow government perhaps not. Which of these are you referring to?

When I refer to the shadow government I am talking about what James Perloff discussed in Shadows of Power.

#53 Kral

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 07:27 PM

I'm confused by this article. All the do-gooders are telling me an AR-15 is nothing but a killing machine and has no use in home defense. New York seems to be leading the way with this kind of ranting. And yet


http://www.13wham.co...kwgAZpGO4g.cspx


Any weapon would have sufficed in this situation I surmise. I agree with the real point of demonizing "scary guns." It doesn't really solve any problems.

#54 PhillyB

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 07:31 PM

You are right. That post was wrong of me and added nothing to the conversation. I should have been more clear and less attackmode


hug it out

#55 Murph

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 07:35 PM

Holy crap for the past month all I've heard is assault weapons are bad, assault weapons combined with kids is horrible. But then

http://www.khou.com/...y-97430719.html

#56 Kral

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 07:40 PM

Holy crap for the past month all I've heard is assault weapons are bad, assault weapons combined with kids is horrible. But then

http://www.13wham.co...kwgAZpGO4g.cspx


So this one instance of unloaded AR-15 heroism has some kind of profound impact?

please note I have nothing against the AR-15 and would like to have one since I finally got to shoot one this past Christmas. Before I was really wanting an AK but now I'm torn.

#57 Murph

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 07:44 PM

My bad, meant to link to this one instead

http://www.khou.com/...y-97430719.html

#58 Kral

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 07:54 PM

My bad, meant to link to this one instead

http://www.khou.com/...y-97430719.html


The weapon used is irrelevant in my view.

I think the people you are trying to appeal to though, considering how you seemed to be addressing extremists, are unlikely to be swayed by anything. Not even a story about a minor shooting a person multiple times with a rifle.

#59 YourMomsLover

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 07:58 PM

How would responsible gun legislation keep criminals from getting whatever firearm they might want? I still don't see how this will affect gang members from getting any weapon they have the money to obtain. I still see it hurting legal gun owners the most.

Someone should explain to me the registering my grandfathered weapons that's in this bill that I will have to register if this passes. ( all bolt action rifles, and a few pistols with detachable clips)









#60 Kral

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 08:06 PM

How would responsible gun legislation keep criminals from getting whatever firearm they might want? I still don't see how this will affect gang members from getting any weapon they have the money to obtain. I still see it hurting legal gun owners the most.

Someone should explain to me the registering my grandfathered weapons that's in this bill that I will have to register if this passes. ( all bolt action rifles, and a few pistols with detachable clips)


Where do criminals get their guns?

I contend that well thought and carefully implemented legislation would indeed have an appreciable impact (downward trending) on gun related violence/murder over time.

Also, in what way are you harmed if you must register all firearms you own?


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