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Questions leading up to the draft

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Posted

The argument here is what to do with Gross. We need to cut him, trade him, or restructure him. That is great if you want to give a 32 year old declining LT more money and extend his contract into his mid thirties. I do not see Gettlemen doing that. So, he wants money to shop in free agency and the LT's film does not justify his salary. So, if he gets rid of Gross and Gamble, he has about $9 million (roughly) for free agents.

You make a lot of good points, but would just like to add another view regarding Gross.

I think when all is said and done, we re-structure him. Tackles often play well into their 30's, and we may be able to squeeze 2 to 3 more seasons out of Gross at either LT or RT. And I think Gross would be open to a re-structure that did not include any real new money. I recently heard an interview with Jordan in which he stated a desire to stay with the organization beyond his playing days. That sounds to me like a guy very willing to do what it takes to stay here. So the idea is to give him a new deal with some signing bonus, drastically lowering his salary for a couple of years and doing it without over-extending ourselves. This is very doable if we are sure he has at least a couple of good years left in him.

The problem with getting rid of him is we'd have to do it before the draft, and if something happened and we couldn't get a starting level LT at our spot, we would be in deep trouble. Signing LT's in FA in problematic, to say the least.

At one point, I thought he was a likely cut candidate. The more I think about it, the less likely it seems.

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Posted

You make a lot of good points, but would just like to add another view regarding Gross.

I think when all is said and done, we re-structure him. Tackles often play well into their 30's, and we may be able to squeeze 2 to 3 more seasons out of Gross at either LT or RT. And I think Gross would be open to a re-structure that did not include any real new money. I recently heard an interview with Jordan in which he stated a desire to stay with the organization beyond his playing days. That sounds to me like a guy very willing to do what it takes to stay here. So the idea is to give him a new deal with some signing bonus, drastically lowering his salary for a couple of years and doing it without over-extending ourselves. This is very doable if we are sure he has at least a couple of good years left in him.

The problem with getting rid of him is we'd have to do it before the draft, and if something happened and we couldn't get a starting level LT at our spot, we would be in deep trouble. Signing LT's in FA in problematic, to say the least.

At one point, I thought he was a likely cut candidate. The more I think about it, the less likely it seems.

If that is the plan, and I think this makes sense, do you still draft a LT or do you lean WR in the draft? I have a feeling we go offense. Heck, I should not rule out G.

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Posted

Why would we take a wr with the 1st pick when the o-line struggled most of the season? Do what Dave said.... take a BIG man

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Posted

hahahaha are you really that dumb? Please tell me your just kidding

Dude, this post isn't even the dumbest thing I've done today..

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Posted

WR, is as big of need as OL. While we need protection, we also need those "TD scorers". As a whole the WRs didn't account for many TDs.

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If that is the plan, and I think this makes sense, do you still draft a LT or do you lean WR in the draft? I have a feeling we go offense. Heck, I should not rule out G.

If a guy like Eric Fisher fell to us, I think we'd have to take him just because he looks so good and because LT's are so hard to find. If that happens, move Gross to the right side, or start the rookie over there for a year, and suddenly we have a spectacular line assuming we sign a competent RG in FA.

Unfortunately, that doesn't seem likely. My gut feel is we go WR in the 1st assuming Allen or maybe Patterson are still on the board. If not, try to drop a few spots to regain our 3rd rounder, and still maybe get our WR in Patton.

No matter how it shakes out, I expect the 1st two rounds to be one offensive lineman, and one WR. Gettleman knows we have a really good defensive mind in Rivera, and Ron's a guy that has consistently gotten the best out of lesser players on D. So make our O as powerful as possible and pick up short term guys to fill in the gaps on D until we fix our cap situation.

But who knows? I never expected the Kuechly pick last year and that worked out exceptionally well. Too much is fluid until we're on the clock.

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Posted

Why would we take a wr with the 1st pick when the o-line struggled most of the season? Do what Dave said.... take a BIG man

you don't use the draft to fix immediate needs on the OL or DT.

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Posted

1. My biggest question is how much input will Rivera have in this draft being it is produce or perish this year? Or is he a lame duck?

I don't think any of that will impact the process. Gettleman has control of these decisions but there's no reason they wouldn't work together, and the team's biggest needs (OL, DT, CB) are more or less choices they need to make regardless of staff.

2 Who will be the most likely cap causalities? I see Gross, Gamble, R Edwards, and Anderson as potential causalities.....I do not see us keeping both Gross and Gamble ..my bet is we retain Gross.If we lose Gross we will need to replace him with a 1st round pick
I would prefer both Gamble and Gross stay on extended but reasonable deals. It would require a big expenditure to not keep either, even though they're worth so much cap relief as cuts.

I think at LB, it'll come down to who's willing to deal. Davis has been the most willing to deal in the past, Beason is still the most valuable (but at his lowest value to date), and Anderson's been the most reliable. At most the team needs two of those three, and could get away with 1.

Ron Edwards, Nakamura (and a reasonable FA or high pick at S), Garry Williams are doomed. I don't see many other obvious cuts. The rest will take tough decisions.

3.Which one of our FAs do we try to retain? I hope like hell it is D Edwards or we will need at least to spend a 1st or 2nd at UT.
Probably better to draft. Dwan, at a reasonable cost, sure. Keep. But he's not bulletproof.

4. Can we afford or risk not taking a wr in the 1st or 2nd round? If Smitty goes down our season will be over for sure

team can definitely afford to not take a WR. Team has tons of underproven WR that are still very young. They'd gain a massive amount from a reasonable FA at WR.

5.What impact player in the draft will give Rivera the most production? Does Gettleman care or is he building toward the following year? This off- season should demonstrate if they are connected at the hip or is this the second coming of the J Fox 2010 lame duck season award ?
first part of that question's very loaded and complicated to answer. Does Gettleman get the best player? Probably. The first couple of rounds, I wouldn't expect juniors that don't have experience, or projects, either. After that, no idea.

6.Is anyone curious as why Gettlemen has not brought in a staff to speak of?
he's stated that it's the incumbent staff's job to lose. Also, most staff additions and subtractions are in May, after the scouting season ends. However, with Dorsey moving to coach, hopefully there will be 2 new scouts replacing him.

7.Can anyone see a scenario where we can avoid multiple cuts to stay under the cap? If yes please show your math
11.7 mil over.

Extending Gross by two years and converting his salary to bonus on that new contract saves $6 million (8.7 mil - .7m to remain as base, leaves 8 mil spread over four total years, $2 mil which stays as proration).

Same for Gamble (7.95 million base, minus 950k as salary to round the numbers, spread over four years is a 2013 savings of 5.25 mil), a total net of 11.25 million, which gets you within $500k. You get to $2 million under by cutting Ron Edwards (savings 2.5 million, no proration), $3 million total cutting Nakamura (technically, 2.937 million under), $4 million total cutting Garry Williams. It'll cost too much to keep all 4 LBs, but we're not cutting anyone per your instructions, so let's say we leverage $1 million of a paycut for one guy to stay. Same with RB. Now you're $6 million under.

sourced here: it'll cost about $4.3 million to sign draft picks. So it's not like $6 million gets you that far. You'd have to either cut or really renegotiate a deal you'd rather not (Beason, DW, or someone bigger like Johnson), to sign anyone bigger to improve in FA (and even Gettleman's goldmine bargains would only net about one guy at the $1.7 mil left after draft picks).

But, you could start off at the cap by adding two years each to Gross/Gamble, and I think that's viable.

8.We need at least a OG, back up qb and safety to even show up next year...how can we make the cuts for the cap and fill these positions?
similar to what's above, if

9.If we let R Edwards go can we stop the run and get some push without drafting a NT?

need to be stronger here, there's no doubt. I think more strength at DT is 1000% a bigger concern than WR.

10. Will this draft be about putting the final pieces in place or replacing cap causalities?
that's not really possible to know - if they did drop a Gross or Gamble, for instance, it would make as much sense to put a cornerstone draftee at one of those spots, and OT is a high likelihood if that's the case. CB, harder to say, but there's not much there without Gamble (Josh Thomas, Josh Norman, and Dockery as a 3rd). Can you get away with two lesser guys? Maybe, but then you're using up two different picks in a somewhat talent poor draft, and one in which Carolina only has five picks barring conditional picks, which the team is anticipating getting a 6th (leaving them with midrounds 1, 2, 4, 5, 6, 6 as their choices).

Since this is to base your mock on, I'd suggest that you predetermine which hard choices you'd have to make, and then base that on what you mock. May also be smart to use someone's draft ratings as legitimate guidelines so you're not feeding people stuff like "OK so I traded down two spots with the Eagles and they gave me their 2nd, 3rd, and 5th picks", or "With my 5th rounder I pick Keenan Allen".

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Posted

you don't use the draft to fix immediate needs on the OL or DT.

disagree to a point on the OL, and DT is a tougher one, but you can find roleplayers that only do one thing well, and then plug that type guy in.

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Posted

disagree to a point on the OL, and DT is a tougher one, but you can find roleplayers that only do one thing well, and then plug that type guy in.

i was more thinking first or second round, but i agree only role players shouldn't be drafted that early either.

just my opinion.

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Posted

I think the GM is going to add bodies to the lines....and try up find a reciever who can be a scoring threat (which we lack).

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People seem to forget free agency. Gamble is going to be cut because he will count nearly $10 million. Gross actually has some trade value. Imagine we got a 4th rounder and traded Gross, saving about $6.5 million vs. the cap. In addition, expect Hangartner, Onatalu, Nakamura, Garry Williams and Ron Edwards to be cut--that would save about $7 million. DeAngelo Williams will be cut June 1, and the savings from his contract will pay our draft picks. So, you basically create $23.5 million. I have seen that we are over the cap by $16 million and I have seen $12.5, but Gettlemen will want to sign 2 or 3 free agents-that is his thing.

The argument here is what to do with Gross. We need to cut him, trade him, or restructure him. That is great if you want to give a 32 year old declining LT more money and extend his contract into his mid thirties. I do not see Gettlemen doing that. So, he wants money to shop in free agency and the LT's film does not justify his salary. So, if he gets rid of Gross and Gamble, he has about $9 million (roughly) for free agents.

Knowing that he cannot find a LT in free agency, yes, he is obliged to try to grab one in the first round. However, he signs a G, DT, and backup QB in free agency. The draft then needs to produce a LT, WR, and CB. WR and CB are pretty deep, but neither extend into the fourth round, so I expect to see the 4th rounder we got for Gross and our 4th rounder packaged to move up into the third round.

We have so many needs, we cannot meet them all in one year. However, the bottom line: is Gross earning his $$? If the answer is no, Gettlemen will move him.

This is simply me guessing what Gettlemen will do by interpreting his comments. Not my ideas, but my guesses.

Good thread, Jarhead.

if you can save all that money would you consider getting jermon bushrod, pro bowl left tackle, from the saints out of fa??

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