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Questions leading up to the draft


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#16 MHS831

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 05:21 PM

yeah i agree, but who is a number 1 left tackle that will fall to panthers at 14......lane johnson, ricky wagner, barret jones.........

i mean i like jones alot but he has only play left tackle for one year....he did very well but idk if he is a sure started like matt kalil.

It is January, but Lane Johnson might not be there when we pick. I hope we get him at 14.

#17 rayzor

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 05:22 PM

all of this, regardless of how well people think they can read between the lines or interpret comments from gettleman or rivera, all comes down to speculation.

that said, here's mine...

rivera and gettleman will collaberate on personnel stuff.

i'm not going to go through that whole list, but i'll just add this stuff:

top priorities, imo (and not in order): OT, RG, UT, NT, FS, CB (replacing gamble).

biggest immediate and singular issue: the trenches.

my solution...find solid, but inexpensive vets to fill the trenches, signed on one year deals. OL and interior DL rookies typically look like they have rollerskates on, regardless of where they were drafted. if you draft anyone outside the top 10 to fill those spots, i think the likelihood that they look incompetant their first year skyrockets. just my personal opinion.

the rule of thumb for deciding on personnel will probably be if they can be replaced by a cheaper option without much negative effect on the cap, they probably will be.

tolbert's contract would have the least negative impact in the RB corps to cut out so barring any restructuring he does, he's probably gone. we'll probably be riding with williams and stewart again, though i wouldn't be surprised to see all three back. we've got them all under contract and it will have a very painful impact on the immediate cap to release them so we'll probably ride with them and be glad of it when one or two of them misses time (which williams and stewart do).

james anderson, chris gamble, and maybe gross will probably be the biggest cap casualties. beason will probably be restructured because he's done nothing except miss games since he signed the new deal. he's still better than anderson and would hurt the cap more by releasing so he'll probably stay. gross all depends on his renegotiating his deal and what we can find to replace him without setting ourselves back much. the fact that we have so many issues on the right side i think makes it unlikely that we release him. we'll probably move him back to the right side and pick up a new LT and RG.

if we beef up the trenches, we'll be able to get by with less in the secondary and at WR, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't address them.

gettleman appears to be a fan of the cheap one year deal as far as vets go and were it up to me after bringing in a couple cap gurus to help fix that mess and make about $10-15mil in space (how? i don't know...don't care. i'll let the bean countrers figure that crap out just like i do in real life and like i would do in gettleman's shoes). then i would trade picks after the 2nd round to pick up older and solid vets on the back end of inexpensive contracts and bring them in for a year focusing on the trenches. rivera and gettleman together should be able to land a couple solid guys like they did with ron and dwan. gettleman should be able to find decent guys to fill in on the OL as well. we don't need studs, we just need guys who won't be pushed around and give cam some breathing room.

on draft day(s) it would be BPA who fits a need. first (and maybe second) round would be guys who could be plugged in right away and make an impact. i think it's more likely to be WR and FS, to be honest.

as far as staff is concerned...gettleman is an analyst first. he observes a situation completely to see strengths and weaknesses and then makes an assessment on it and then works to make it better. that's just the way it appears to me. he'll look at this staff and this roster to see what and who works best, who needs works as well as what work needs to be done, and who needs replacing. he then will find the best candidate that fits the situation...including the financial situation.


just my .02.

#18 Marguide

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 05:23 PM

I just think there's going to be a big name to get cut that we don't see coming. Both of these guys have good size contracts that were made several years ago that could be torn up to make cap room..

They were both signed to contracts that made them the highest paid at their positions, I think that also makes them an attractive target for a cut (or restructure).


Cutting CJ in March (when we have to get under the cap) would accelerate 18 million in signing bonus. So that isn't going to happen.

You could reason that he carries a cap hit of 13 million if he stays, so it would only be an overall negative impact of 5 million, but that ignores the value of the DE position. We would have to replace him, and unless we gamble on grabbing a stud in the draft, DE's don't come cheap. Any DE worth a damn will cost 8 million + in FA. Given all this, there doesn't seem to be any chance that CJ gets cut.

#19 2jakefansinva

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 05:25 PM

I just think there's going to be a big name to get cut that we don't see coming. Both of these guys have good size contracts that were made several years ago that could be torn up to make cap room..

They were both signed to contracts that made them the highest paid at their positions, I think that also makes them an attractive target for a cut (or restructure).


CJ nor Kalil will be cut.

big difference between cut/restructure

#20 rayzor

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 05:27 PM

CJ nor Kalil will be cut.

big difference between cut/restructure

i don't think anything will be done with either of their contracts. no need.

other guys should have it done first. there will be enough room made without having to touch them.

#21 rayzor

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 05:30 PM

Cutting CJ in March (when we have to get under the cap) would accelerate 18 million in signing bonus. So that isn't going to happen.

You could reason that he carries a cap hit of 13 million if he stays, so it would only be an overall negative impact of 5 million, but that ignores the value of the DE position. We would have to replace him, and unless we gamble on grabbing a stud in the draft, DE's don't come cheap. Any DE worth a damn will cost 8 million + in FA. Given all this, there doesn't seem to be any chance that CJ gets cut.

the same thought goes to kalil as well. i would even throw gross in there. if we'd have to pay as much to replace them and still have to deal with the expense of cutting them (which is forgotten about) then it takes away any benefit from tampering with that position. it just creates more problems with personnel and the cap to mess with.

#22 Herbert The Love Bug

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 05:37 PM

I just think there's going to be a big name to get cut that we don't see coming. Both of these guys have good size contracts that were made several years ago that could be torn up to make cap room..

They were both signed to contracts that made them the highest paid at their positions, I think that also makes them an attractive target for a cut (or restructure).


hahahaha are you really that dumb? Please tell me your just kidding

#23 MHS831

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 05:38 PM

People seem to forget free agency. Gamble is going to be cut because he will count nearly $10 million. Gross actually has some trade value. Imagine we got a 4th rounder and traded Gross, saving about $6.5 million vs. the cap. In addition, expect Hangartner, Onatalu, Nakamura, Garry Williams and Ron Edwards to be cut--that would save about $7 million. DeAngelo Williams will be cut June 1, and the savings from his contract will pay our draft picks. So, you basically create $23.5 million. I have seen that we are over the cap by $16 million and I have seen $12.5, but Gettlemen will want to sign 2 or 3 free agents-that is his thing.

The argument here is what to do with Gross. We need to cut him, trade him, or restructure him. That is great if you want to give a 32 year old declining LT more money and extend his contract into his mid thirties. I do not see Gettlemen doing that. So, he wants money to shop in free agency and the LT's film does not justify his salary. So, if he gets rid of Gross and Gamble, he has about $9 million (roughly) for free agents.

Knowing that he cannot find a LT in free agency, yes, he is obliged to try to grab one in the first round. However, he signs a G, DT, and backup QB in free agency. The draft then needs to produce a LT, WR, and CB. WR and CB are pretty deep, but neither extend into the fourth round, so I expect to see the 4th rounder we got for Gross and our 4th rounder packaged to move up into the third round.

We have so many needs, we cannot meet them all in one year. However, the bottom line: is Gross earning his $$? If the answer is no, Gettlemen will move him.

This is simply me guessing what Gettlemen will do by interpreting his comments. Not my ideas, but my guesses.

Good thread, Jarhead.

#24 Happy Panther

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 06:00 PM

1. My biggest question is how much input will Rivera have in this draft being it is produce or perish this year? Or is he a lame duck?


As much as any coach. But no rookie is going to save Rivera's job by themselves. Gettleman will be drafting for the long term

2 Who will be the most likely cap causalities? I see Gross, Gamble, R Edwards, and Anderson as potential causalities.....I do not see us keeping both Gross and Gamble ..my bet is we retain Gross.If we lose Gross we will need to replace him with a 1st round pick


Gamble is out and Edwards. Gross will remain with a different contract. There will be a couple more moves. I suspect Deangelo gets cut too Jun1

3.Which one of our FAs do we try to retain? I hope like hell it is D Edwards or we will need at least to spend a 1st or 2nd at UT.


I don't know!


4. Can we afford or risk not taking a wr in the 1st or 2nd round? If Smitty goes down our season will be over for sure


I don't see a WR with the first pick. My gut is that WR will be a 2014 draft priority


5.What impact player in the draft will give Rivera the most production? Does Gettleman care or is he building toward the following year? This off- season should demonstrate if they are connected at the hip or is this the second coming of the J Fox 2010 lame duck season award ?


I thing a DT would be best for Rivera in the first round. Make the playoffs with Defense. i think an OT would be best long term.


6.Is anyone curious as why Gettlemen has not brought in a staff to speak of?


Continuity to giver Rivera his fair shot. He may clean house after next season.


7.Can anyone see a scenario where we can avoid multiple cuts to stay under the cap? If yes please show your math


No. I think we could restructure a bunch and still not be under the cap. There will be 4 or more big cuts


8.We need at least a OG, back up qb and safety to even show up next year...how can we make the cuts for the cap and fill these positions?


We need to find $16m

Gamble + Edwards + Nakamura = $12M
Restructure Beason and Gross = ???

Not sure how much but I doubt its enough to become a player in the free agent market after filling the back up QB for $1M per.

So add Deangelo in for another $5M which will give us the cash to fill the holes we need.


9.If we let R Edwards go can we stop the run and get some push without drafting a NT?


I think we draft a DT now.


10. Will this draft be about putting the final pieces in place or replacing cap causalities?


Both!

If someone can answer these questions I will then be ready to give my mock draft

#25 Marguide

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 06:00 PM

The argument here is what to do with Gross. We need to cut him, trade him, or restructure him. That is great if you want to give a 32 year old declining LT more money and extend his contract into his mid thirties. I do not see Gettlemen doing that. So, he wants money to shop in free agency and the LT's film does not justify his salary. So, if he gets rid of Gross and Gamble, he has about $9 million (roughly) for free agents.



You make a lot of good points, but would just like to add another view regarding Gross.

I think when all is said and done, we re-structure him. Tackles often play well into their 30's, and we may be able to squeeze 2 to 3 more seasons out of Gross at either LT or RT. And I think Gross would be open to a re-structure that did not include any real new money. I recently heard an interview with Jordan in which he stated a desire to stay with the organization beyond his playing days. That sounds to me like a guy very willing to do what it takes to stay here. So the idea is to give him a new deal with some signing bonus, drastically lowering his salary for a couple of years and doing it without over-extending ourselves. This is very doable if we are sure he has at least a couple of good years left in him.

The problem with getting rid of him is we'd have to do it before the draft, and if something happened and we couldn't get a starting level LT at our spot, we would be in deep trouble. Signing LT's in FA in problematic, to say the least.

At one point, I thought he was a likely cut candidate. The more I think about it, the less likely it seems.

#26 MHS831

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 06:21 PM

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You make a lot of good points, but would just like to add another view regarding Gross.

I think when all is said and done, we re-structure him. Tackles often play well into their 30's, and we may be able to squeeze 2 to 3 more seasons out of Gross at either LT or RT. And I think Gross would be open to a re-structure that did not include any real new money. I recently heard an interview with Jordan in which he stated a desire to stay with the organization beyond his playing days. That sounds to me like a guy very willing to do what it takes to stay here. So the idea is to give him a new deal with some signing bonus, drastically lowering his salary for a couple of years and doing it without over-extending ourselves. This is very doable if we are sure he has at least a couple of good years left in him.

The problem with getting rid of him is we'd have to do it before the draft, and if something happened and we couldn't get a starting level LT at our spot, we would be in deep trouble. Signing LT's in FA in problematic, to say the least.

At one point, I thought he was a likely cut candidate. The more I think about it, the less likely it seems.

If that is the plan, and I think this makes sense, do you still draft a LT or do you lean WR in the draft? I have a feeling we go offense. Heck, I should not rule out G.

#27 FastNFurious

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 06:34 PM

Why would we take a wr with the 1st pick when the o-line struggled most of the season? Do what Dave said.... take a BIG man

#28 SevenSixes

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 06:43 PM

hahahaha are you really that dumb? Please tell me your just kidding


Dude, this post isn't even the dumbest thing I've done today..

#29 La Pantera

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 06:45 PM

WR, is as big of need as OL. While we need protection, we also need those "TD scorers". As a whole the WRs didn't account for many TDs.

#30 Marguide

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 07:11 PM

If that is the plan, and I think this makes sense, do you still draft a LT or do you lean WR in the draft? I have a feeling we go offense. Heck, I should not rule out G.


If a guy like Eric Fisher fell to us, I think we'd have to take him just because he looks so good and because LT's are so hard to find. If that happens, move Gross to the right side, or start the rookie over there for a year, and suddenly we have a spectacular line assuming we sign a competent RG in FA.

Unfortunately, that doesn't seem likely. My gut feel is we go WR in the 1st assuming Allen or maybe Patterson are still on the board. If not, try to drop a few spots to regain our 3rd rounder, and still maybe get our WR in Patton.

No matter how it shakes out, I expect the 1st two rounds to be one offensive lineman, and one WR. Gettleman knows we have a really good defensive mind in Rivera, and Ron's a guy that has consistently gotten the best out of lesser players on D. So make our O as powerful as possible and pick up short term guys to fill in the gaps on D until we fix our cap situation.

But who knows? I never expected the Kuechly pick last year and that worked out exceptionally well. Too much is fluid until we're on the clock.


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