Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Questions leading up to the draft


  • Please log in to reply
46 replies to this topic

#31 rayzor

rayzor

    shula is who i thought he was.

  • Moderators
  • -29,936 posts

Posted 26 January 2013 - 07:11 PM

Why would we take a wr with the 1st pick when the o-line struggled most of the season? Do what Dave said.... take a BIG man

you don't use the draft to fix immediate needs on the OL or DT.

#32 magnus

magnus

    Eternal Gameface

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,224 posts

Posted 26 January 2013 - 09:27 PM

1. My biggest question is how much input will Rivera have in this draft being it is produce or perish this year? Or is he a lame duck?

I don't think any of that will impact the process. Gettleman has control of these decisions but there's no reason they wouldn't work together, and the team's biggest needs (OL, DT, CB) are more or less choices they need to make regardless of staff.

2 Who will be the most likely cap causalities? I see Gross, Gamble, R Edwards, and Anderson as potential causalities.....I do not see us keeping both Gross and Gamble ..my bet is we retain Gross.If we lose Gross we will need to replace him with a 1st round pick

I would prefer both Gamble and Gross stay on extended but reasonable deals. It would require a big expenditure to not keep either, even though they're worth so much cap relief as cuts.

I think at LB, it'll come down to who's willing to deal. Davis has been the most willing to deal in the past, Beason is still the most valuable (but at his lowest value to date), and Anderson's been the most reliable. At most the team needs two of those three, and could get away with 1.

Ron Edwards, Nakamura (and a reasonable FA or high pick at S), Garry Williams are doomed. I don't see many other obvious cuts. The rest will take tough decisions.



3.Which one of our FAs do we try to retain? I hope like hell it is D Edwards or we will need at least to spend a 1st or 2nd at UT.

Probably better to draft. Dwan, at a reasonable cost, sure. Keep. But he's not bulletproof.

4. Can we afford or risk not taking a wr in the 1st or 2nd round? If Smitty goes down our season will be over for sure

team can definitely afford to not take a WR. Team has tons of underproven WR that are still very young. They'd gain a massive amount from a reasonable FA at WR.


5.What impact player in the draft will give Rivera the most production? Does Gettleman care or is he building toward the following year? This off- season should demonstrate if they are connected at the hip or is this the second coming of the J Fox 2010 lame duck season award ?

first part of that question's very loaded and complicated to answer. Does Gettleman get the best player? Probably. The first couple of rounds, I wouldn't expect juniors that don't have experience, or projects, either. After that, no idea.


6.Is anyone curious as why Gettlemen has not brought in a staff to speak of?

he's stated that it's the incumbent staff's job to lose. Also, most staff additions and subtractions are in May, after the scouting season ends. However, with Dorsey moving to coach, hopefully there will be 2 new scouts replacing him.


7.Can anyone see a scenario where we can avoid multiple cuts to stay under the cap? If yes please show your math

11.7 mil over.

Extending Gross by two years and converting his salary to bonus on that new contract saves $6 million (8.7 mil - .7m to remain as base, leaves 8 mil spread over four total years, $2 mil which stays as proration).

Same for Gamble (7.95 million base, minus 950k as salary to round the numbers, spread over four years is a 2013 savings of 5.25 mil), a total net of 11.25 million, which gets you within $500k. You get to $2 million under by cutting Ron Edwards (savings 2.5 million, no proration), $3 million total cutting Nakamura (technically, 2.937 million under), $4 million total cutting Garry Williams. It'll cost too much to keep all 4 LBs, but we're not cutting anyone per your instructions, so let's say we leverage $1 million of a paycut for one guy to stay. Same with RB. Now you're $6 million under.

sourced here: it'll cost about $4.3 million to sign draft picks. So it's not like $6 million gets you that far. You'd have to either cut or really renegotiate a deal you'd rather not (Beason, DW, or someone bigger like Johnson), to sign anyone bigger to improve in FA (and even Gettleman's goldmine bargains would only net about one guy at the $1.7 mil left after draft picks).

But, you could start off at the cap by adding two years each to Gross/Gamble, and I think that's viable.



8.We need at least a OG, back up qb and safety to even show up next year...how can we make the cuts for the cap and fill these positions?

similar to what's above, if

9.If we let R Edwards go can we stop the run and get some push without drafting a NT?

need to be stronger here, there's no doubt. I think more strength at DT is 1000% a bigger concern than WR.


10. Will this draft be about putting the final pieces in place or replacing cap causalities?

that's not really possible to know - if they did drop a Gross or Gamble, for instance, it would make as much sense to put a cornerstone draftee at one of those spots, and OT is a high likelihood if that's the case. CB, harder to say, but there's not much there without Gamble (Josh Thomas, Josh Norman, and Dockery as a 3rd). Can you get away with two lesser guys? Maybe, but then you're using up two different picks in a somewhat talent poor draft, and one in which Carolina only has five picks barring conditional picks, which the team is anticipating getting a 6th (leaving them with midrounds 1, 2, 4, 5, 6, 6 as their choices).

Since this is to base your mock on, I'd suggest that you predetermine which hard choices you'd have to make, and then base that on what you mock. May also be smart to use someone's draft ratings as legitimate guidelines so you're not feeding people stuff like "OK so I traded down two spots with the Eagles and they gave me their 2nd, 3rd, and 5th picks", or "With my 5th rounder I pick Keenan Allen".

#33 magnus

magnus

    Eternal Gameface

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,224 posts

Posted 26 January 2013 - 09:28 PM

you don't use the draft to fix immediate needs on the OL or DT.

disagree to a point on the OL, and DT is a tougher one, but you can find roleplayers that only do one thing well, and then plug that type guy in.

#34 rayzor

rayzor

    shula is who i thought he was.

  • Moderators
  • -29,936 posts

Posted 26 January 2013 - 11:16 PM

disagree to a point on the OL, and DT is a tougher one, but you can find roleplayers that only do one thing well, and then plug that type guy in.

i was more thinking first or second round, but i agree only role players shouldn't be drafted that early either.

just my opinion.

#35 CRA

CRA

    Senior Member

  • Moderators
  • 23,911 posts

Posted 27 January 2013 - 04:47 PM

I think the GM is going to add bodies to the lines....and try up find a reciever who can be a scoring threat (which we lack).



#36 BigSyke

BigSyke

    I Know you Watching me but I'm watching you too Playa...

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,126 posts
  • LocationFLORIDA

Posted 27 January 2013 - 05:58 PM

People seem to forget free agency. Gamble is going to be cut because he will count nearly $10 million. Gross actually has some trade value. Imagine we got a 4th rounder and traded Gross, saving about $6.5 million vs. the cap. In addition, expect Hangartner, Onatalu, Nakamura, Garry Williams and Ron Edwards to be cut--that would save about $7 million. DeAngelo Williams will be cut June 1, and the savings from his contract will pay our draft picks. So, you basically create $23.5 million. I have seen that we are over the cap by $16 million and I have seen $12.5, but Gettlemen will want to sign 2 or 3 free agents-that is his thing.

The argument here is what to do with Gross. We need to cut him, trade him, or restructure him. That is great if you want to give a 32 year old declining LT more money and extend his contract into his mid thirties. I do not see Gettlemen doing that. So, he wants money to shop in free agency and the LT's film does not justify his salary. So, if he gets rid of Gross and Gamble, he has about $9 million (roughly) for free agents.

Knowing that he cannot find a LT in free agency, yes, he is obliged to try to grab one in the first round. However, he signs a G, DT, and backup QB in free agency. The draft then needs to produce a LT, WR, and CB. WR and CB are pretty deep, but neither extend into the fourth round, so I expect to see the 4th rounder we got for Gross and our 4th rounder packaged to move up into the third round.

We have so many needs, we cannot meet them all in one year. However, the bottom line: is Gross earning his $$? If the answer is no, Gettlemen will move him.

This is simply me guessing what Gettlemen will do by interpreting his comments. Not my ideas, but my guesses.

Good thread, Jarhead.




if you can save all that money would you consider getting jermon bushrod, pro bowl left tackle, from the saints out of fa??

#37 Peppers90 NC

Peppers90 NC

    Senior Member

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,844 posts

Posted 28 January 2013 - 02:04 PM

If you improve the OL I do not think we have to take a WR. Improved OL = improved Cam....makes current WR group better...

This draft needs to address trenches and our secondary...

I think we have the "TD scorers" in place already

i agree, great qb's make their wr's better. it's the not so great guys like Matt Ryan that need great wr's to be great.

#38 MadHatter

MadHatter

    The Only Voice of Reason

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 18,047 posts
  • LocationDark Side of the Moon

Posted 28 January 2013 - 02:08 PM

I just think there's going to be a big name to get cut that we don't see coming. Both of these guys have good size contracts that were made several years ago that could be torn up to make cap room..

They were both signed to contracts that made them the highest paid at their positions, I think that also makes them an attractive target for a cut (or restructure).


Just when you think it can't get worse.....a guy like this comes along.

If you think either CJ or Kalil would even be considered as a possible cut, you must be effectively brain dead.

#39 Rubi

Rubi

    Squid Smasher

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,294 posts
  • LocationCharlotte

Posted 28 January 2013 - 03:09 PM

I think the GM is going to add bodies to the lines....and try up find a reciever who can be a scoring threat (which we lack).


Doing this to our team would make immediate and positive impact. We lack depth on O and lack a strong consistent interior presence on D

#40 MHS831

MHS831

    Senior Member

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,711 posts

Posted 28 January 2013 - 09:50 PM

if you can save all that money would you consider getting jermon bushrod, pro bowl left tackle, from the saints out of fa??

Personally, I would not, but that is a good thought. I am of the opinion that A. Bushrod was overrated (Nicks and Evans made job easier) and B. that LTs are too expensive in free agency. I would draft players that have (traditionally) high salaries on the second contract because the savings is there. Instead, I would sign a free agent DT and RG for nearly the same money-not pro bowlers, but decent players.

Let me elaborate in case I was not clear: If you draft an OT in the seventh slot in the draft, you pay him for 4 years the same as if you pay a Guard drafted seventh. Since the average second contract for a good OT can be $10 million (on average) and the average second contract for a guard is $5 million, then drafting a Tackle and playing him on a first contract is cheaper than signing a free agent T and drafting the G. I am not sure this makes sense, but it does in my brain! (numbers are not accurate-just examples)

#41 carolina-chuck

carolina-chuck

    HORNETS 2014

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 17,201 posts
  • LocationKurby

Posted 28 January 2013 - 09:55 PM

We betterr bring Dwan back. Ron ain't coming back so I'm not going to be dumb enough to think we can win 7 games next season with Fua and Kearse/Neblett

#42 Frizzy350

Frizzy350

    Senior Member

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,076 posts

Posted 28 January 2013 - 10:24 PM

I just think there's going to be a big name to get cut that we don't see coming. Both of these guys have good size contracts that were made several years ago that could be torn up to make cap room..

They were both signed to contracts that made them the highest paid at their positions, I think that also makes them an attractive target for a cut (or restructure).


At minimum we will trade them for a 7th. Theres no way we cut Dwill, it would hurt our cap more than keeping him.

#43 CRA

CRA

    Senior Member

  • Moderators
  • 23,911 posts

Posted 28 January 2013 - 11:00 PM

At minimum we will trade them for a 7th. Theres no way we cut Dwill, it would hurt our cap more than keeping him.


We are in a bad cap situation in 2013....but it is worse in 2014.

Cutting guys and moving on NOW....IMO will be done with 2014 in mind. Fan favorites will be leaving

#44 Frizzy350

Frizzy350

    Senior Member

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,076 posts

Posted 28 January 2013 - 11:27 PM

1. My biggest question is how much input will Rivera have in this draft being it is produce or perish this year? Or is he a lame duck?

Rivera will work with Dave to make the selection. Rivera has been coaching this team for 2 years, he's the guy who knows what positions are currently our biggest liability.


2 Who will be the most likely cap causalities? I see Gross, Gamble, R Edwards, and Anderson as potential causalities.....I do not see us keeping both Gross and Gamble ..my bet is we retain Gross.If we lose Gross we will need to replace him with a 1st round pick

Tough question. Garry Williams and Nakamura are most likely to be cut, they flat out suck. Ron Edwards will also probably be cut, due to his contract and age.

I'd hope to see Gross willing to make a big restructure for this team, we horrendously overpaid him at signing time (he was a good tackle, but we all knew he would never be able to play like that contract implied - on say a Walter Jones/Orlando Pace/Jon Ogden level).

Gamble i could see being traded for a cruddy pick like Asante was to the falcons. Maybe he'll restructure, but I don't see him being here next year. Maybe we cut him and re-bid on him in FA at a contract half the size he's currently earning? Still... he's most likely gone.

The mess at linebacker: TD will be here next year. If there is one guy the Panthers can count on to do whatever it takes to get on a field in a Panthers Uni, its him. He's also our best coverage LB, the fastest and best tackler next to Keek and our best blitzing LB. What happens with Beason and Anderson completely depends on how much they want to play for. Between Keek and Davis alone we have absurd closing speed and coverage ability in our LB core and I think having a good Sam is a luxury we can afford to lose.

The mess at runningback: I have a freaky feeling Williams is going to be willing to restructure. Whether he does or doesn't, I think double trouble is broken up this year, and I think Jstu gets dealt for maybe a 3rd rounder or an average starting caliber player. Why Jstu? He has more trade value (he's younger and has eye popping strength and speed, the Raiders have his phone on speed dial) and has an easier skillset to replace. Tolbert can fill the same role of Jstu - picking up blitzes, catching screens, bulldozing defenders, etc. Williams skillset is much more unique and an immediate replacement is not on the roster.


3.Which one of our FAs do we try to retain? I hope like hell it is D Edwards or we will need at least to spend a 1st or 2nd at UT.

Dwan and Capt.

4. Can we afford or risk not taking a wr in the 1st or 2nd round? If Smitty goes down our season will be over for sure

If we address our other needs we will be fine. WR isn't a necessity, but it would be a great luxury. We still have Olsen and Lafell and a handful of young receivers with potential. Assuming our line is fixed, our running game should be dynamite (In Cams rookie year our team had 2100 rushing yards, AP brought his team to the playoffs this year with those kind of numbers).

If somehow Warmack drops to us or we pretty much know for sure a guard we REALLY like will be around for our 2nd or 4th rounder pick we might end up taking a wideout in the 1st or 2nd. Many also talk about how deep this draft is at WR, so we may go trenches rounds 1 + 2 then WR in the 4th.


5.What impact player in the draft will give Rivera the most production? Does Gettleman care or is he building toward the following year? This off- season should demonstrate if they are connected at the hip or is this the second coming of the J Fox 2010 lame duck season award ?

If we were aiming for a lame duck season (aka, set up Rivera for failure) we wouldn't have given him this year.

6.Is anyone curious as why Gettlemen has not brought in a staff to speak of?

He needs to see whats currently in place, and as others have said we will see moves in management around May.

7.Can anyone see a scenario where we can avoid multiple cuts to stay under the cap? If yes please show your math

If we can convince a lot of highly paid players to restructure or flat out take pay cuts, yes, but I don't see that being realistic.

8.We need at least a OG, back up qb and safety to even show up next year...how can we make the cuts for the cap and fill these positions?

I don't think a back up qb depends if we show up or not next year. If our backup quarterback needs to regularly see the field, our season is over. No Cam = No Chance.

I have no idea what we can do about safety, if you want to be cheap we can roll with Godfrey/Campbell (seemed acceptable) or we can give Martin another shot. Maybe we roll the dice on a low tier FA or possibly go after a nice prospect in the draft (for some reason I dont see us drafting a S in rounds 1-2).


9.If we let R Edwards go can we stop the run and get some push without drafting a NT?

Right now? No. Rivera will find an under appreciated DT that can be acquired for little to nothing and he will play well enough and hold the point of attack. This is actually something Ron has shown he's capable of doing.

10. Will this draft be about putting the final pieces in place or replacing cap causalities?

Depends on what you mean by cap casualties. I feel most of the guys we lose that are cap casualties will more or less be luxuries that we can't afford. So for instance if we choose to part ways with Beason or Anderson, I doubt we would draft a linebacker outside of the 6th/7th round. If we parted ways with Gross, then we probably would look to take a tackle early in the draft. Overall I'd have to say it's to find the final pieces.

If someone can answer these questions I will then be ready to give my mock draft



#45 KJ89

KJ89

    bottom line

  • HUDDLER
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,814 posts
  • LocationCharlotte

Posted 28 January 2013 - 11:27 PM

Nvm


0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

Contact Us: info@carolinahuddle.com - IP Content Design by Joshua Tree / TitansReport.