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Is there an agenda behind the anti dual threat, hybrid or read option QBs


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#1 Guest_BlueBoy_*

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 10:00 AM

Understand this, I have no qualm against those who believes Cam should stay in the pocket more to avoid getting hit. But my concern is fans of teams whose QB is not dual threat that goes out of their ways to express their dislikes of that style of QBs and play. If your QB is Cam, Wilson, RG3, Kaepernick, Vick, etc. I understand your fear, but if Luck, Payton, Brady are your QB what is it to you that other QBs can run. Shouldn't it be a good thing that the opposition is injury prone if you're a Luck fan, per se?

I've been reading a lot where people keep saying when Randall Cunningham came out people thought he'd revolutionize the sport and how that never happened. Also emphasizing how those new hybrid QBs are a fad and they'll disappear as soon as one gets injured. My problem is, what is it to them? Why would it be a 'happy' thing for those hybrid QBs to just go away?

It's like saying you like women but don't like them tall and attractive. Which is okay, but why are you mad that other people like tall and attractive women? Why so bitter to the point of wanting them all disappear?

#2 MadHatter

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 10:55 AM

So many words.....so little substance.

Thanks

#3 teeray

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 10:56 AM

Unless the college and high school games completely revert back to 80's style offenses, the hybrid/dual thread QB is here to stay.

You can either figure out a way to make that an advantage for your team, or you can hold onto antiquated beliefs and try to find a traditional QB in the ever diminishing pool of those type of QBs.

Every year, college QBs that play in pro style offense are overrated and guys that come from these innovative offenses are penalized. Yet year after year those pro style QBs bust and the hybrid QBs are starting to flourish.

#4 rayzor

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 10:56 AM

not the one you think.

nfl is change averse. it doesn't like the idea of evolving or changing the way it does things.

it kind of has an exclusionist and elitist mindset that says the way we do things is THE way to do things...and I'm not talking about the whole race thing. I'm talking about philosophy. it wants to be the standard, the example, the pattern that other levels use. it wants to influence rather than be influenced. I'm not talking about goodell and the execs either. this has been the culture, esp. at the coaching and owner levels which is made up of a lot if stalwarts of the past ways.

it was reluctant to the spread and kept talking about how it would never work and how defenses were too fast and sophisticated, meanwhile more progressive minded teams were using it and dominating with it..the pats, the cards when they went to the superbowl, the saints, and quite a few others as well. they argued against taking the majority of snaps out of the shotgun, but teams are using it more and more every year.

for a while its also been the dual threats. college offenses have had no problem using them and its not because college defenses are so inferior, even though they are, its because they've been using them more. they have more experience with them and whole offenses have been built around them for years.
they have been adapting everything they do for years to fit it. OLs and blocking schemes and pretty much everything has changed to make it work. all the coaches and personnel have been on the same page and growing together in it.

then you go the pros where they say it would never work, largely using the arguments that because its never been done, it can't and that defenses are too sophisticated for it. so not only does it have its detractors, it is also entering a realm that really has no experience in it. teams that see the potential in it have trouble adjusting to it because they are having to essentially retrain their existing players and coaches to run it. its struggled so far because the pro level is actually behind the curve on it.

as spread offenses have taken over (or at least a pass heavy mindset) we have seen a huge shift in QBs. older more traditional game manager/pocket passing QBs have been falling off and replaced by younger QBs more used to pass heavy systems and they've been starting earlier and succeeding.

we are now seeing another shift and that is for the dual threat QBs and more usage of the read option. while detractors keep throwing the same old excuses for why it won't work, more and more teams are going to be using it and learning how to run it well, which is what has been the biggest problem, running it well.

people will say that its just a phase like the wildcat, but its not, well, not exactly. the wildcat introduced a new threat, having someone getting the snap who is a threat to runs as well as pitching it off or throwing. the problem was that most of the time the RB kept the ball and ran with it and defenses always knew pretty much what to expect when the RB got behind center. the idea was good, but the way they ran it wasn't. so instead of trying to occasionally put an RB back there who might throw it, find a QB who is a threat to run it and keep the threat that was the wildcat there throughout the game. the wildcat was a stepping stone towards the dual threat QB.

the more its used and the more it succeeds, the more it will become part of the NFL. there will still be those who will poo all over it, but they'll be doing it while teams are dominating with it.

#5 rayzor

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 10:57 AM

Unless the college and high school games completely revert back to 80's style offenses, the hybrid/dual thread QB is here to stay.

You can either figure out a way to make that an advantage for your team, or you can hold onto antiquated beliefs and try to find a traditional QB in the ever diminishing pool of those type of QBs.

Every year, college QBs that play in pro style offense are overrated and guys that come from these innovative offenses are penalized. Yet year after year those pro style QBs bust and the hybrid QBs are starting to flourish.

jimmy clausen. blaine gabbert.

#6 MadHatter

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 11:03 AM

Point is that there are basically no posters on this board who do not want Cam to be a dual threat QB. He has the skillset to hurt a team with both his arm and his legs.

However, there are many that realize running the read option as much as we did in the first half of last year is a bad decision.

It is like having an offense that is almost purely passing or purely running. Both can be easily taken out of their game. Cam and our RB's were very successful in the second half when we shifted away for the read option as our base.

Cam's arm strength....our RB's abilities in a traditional running game....play action opened up by that running game...a c then sprinkling in some read option to keep the defense guessing. That is the recipe for a well balanced and dangerous offense.

I like rolling Cam out of the picket and giving him the decision to pass or run. That is what makes Rodgers so dangerous.

I believe thus us the recipe that Shula is referring to.



#7 rayzor

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 11:14 AM

Point is that there are basically no posters on this board who do not want Cam to be a dual threat QB. He has the skillset to hurt a team with both his arm and his legs.

However, there are many that realize running the read option as much as we did in the first half of last year is a bad decision.

It is like having an offense that is almost purely passing or purely running. Both can be easily taken out of their game. Cam and our RB's were very successful in the second half when we shifted away for the read option as our base.

Cam's arm strength....our RB's abilities in a traditional running game....play action opened up by that running game...a c then sprinkling in some read option to keep the defense guessing. That is the recipe for a well balanced and dangerous offense.

I like rolling Cam out of the picket and giving him the decision to pass or run. That is what makes Rodgers so dangerous.

I believe thus us the recipe that Shula is referring to.

i don't think the problem was the frequency of the read option as much as how often cam kept it, how predictable it was, the OL being inadequate, and chud just not paying attention to whats going on. he was a crap playcaller.

#8 teeray

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 11:24 AM

Too often when discussing the NFL people look to history for absolutism on the future, instead of using it for perspective and context while maintaining the open mindedness that the game is always evolving.

#9 rayzor

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 11:35 AM

Too often when discussing the NFL people look to history for absolutism on the future, instead of using it for perspective and context while maintaining the open mindedness that the game is always evolving.

agreed.

#10 Khaki Lackey

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 11:35 AM

Now that the league has a rookie pay scale max, the QBs are a lot more disposable now. Might as well run them into the ground. It's actually in the teams' best interest from a cap standpoint to trash the QB before his rookie contract expires.

No matter how much the rules change and gimmick offenses come go or stay, we like to think that coaching geniuses win games and they sometimes do. But no matter how much we want to change it, reality is if team A is bigger, stronger, and better conditioned than team B,
they will win.

Jimmy Johnson admitted he was not an X's and O's genius, but he knew how to draft, and he knew how to get the best out of his players. His offenses never fooled anyone, they just beat the sh!t out of them.

#11 Guest_BlueBoy_*

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 09:32 PM

I like how fans of their respective teams want all their skill positions to be 'athletic'. They want the fastest RBs, WRs, TEs and espcially CBs but god forbid their QB is 'athletic', all of a sudden they're all up in arm crying about it. Unless, of course, that 'athletic' QB is also 'tall' like Ben Rothlisberger then it's all copacetic.

It was amazing to me how many people believed Luck should have been drafted over RG3 not because of their skills but what the fans are 'used' to. The Colts fan seems to be quite 'used' to watching Reggie Wayne catch all those balls during their yearly journey to the playoffs. And not to mention all the other 'athletic' players they had.

I have no problem with the NFL declaring QBs in some organizations an affirmative position for non-athletic white players. Where certain teams like the Colts, per se must only draft white QBs. Just put it out there. But stop shoving the 'pocket passer' code word in our face like we're stupid. To be honest, that's quite embarrassing.

#12 2jakefansinva

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 10:10 PM

you must be KT's boy

#13 MaineManPanther

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 10:29 PM

There is no agenda. Just because you've noticed a lot of fans (out of literally millions ) have stupid or bias remarks doesn't mean there is a unified agenda agianst hybrid Qb's.

#14 BigSyke

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 10:30 PM

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#15 Frizzy350

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 11:24 PM

i don't think the problem was the frequency of the read option as much as how often cam kept it, how predictable it was, the OL being inadequate, and chud just not paying attention to whats going on. he was a crap playcaller.


Yep. Chud called plays based purely on percentages, not based on situations or how certain defenders were playing (is the DE over pursuing? Will that LB bite on a play-action? Is that CB trying to jam us at the LOS?). I HATED running the read-option on 2nd and 10, and Chud seemed to love it there. It would often result in 3rd and 13-17 which is usually a dead drive.


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