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Is there an agenda behind the anti dual threat, hybrid or read option QBs


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#31 BigSyke

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 12:37 PM

oh yeah if big ben(who can run decent) and cutler ran more that would cut down on there injuries lol they would just get hit MORE. lol

i guess since you can still get hit by a car on the sidewalk you should just walk on highway carefree. lol

if you can outrun a bullet you dont think the shooter is going to send more.....oh you going to out run every bullet lol even mike vick couldnt do that and hes the best just watch that eagles come back on the giants a few years back.

for the most part running is going to help extend plays or gain a few yards when a play break down.

yeah rg3 got in the playoffs to lose because he couldnt play well enough to win. all those hits while running aint worth it buddy. he was clearly hurt and should have had a coupe ints.

cam almost got injured bad in the pocket at the saints game.....and if he runs thats just going to increase his chances of getting hurt even more. you already going to take alot of shots in the pocket anyways.

and yeah pocket qbs get hurt but thats the oline fault...they are not bringing ill will to themselves.

#32 BigSyke

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 12:37 PM

oh yeah if big ben(who can run decent) and cutler ran more that would cut down on there injuries lol they would just get hit MORE. lol

i guess since you can still get hit by a car on the sidewalk you should just walk on highway carefree. lol

if you can outrun a bullet you dont think the shooter is going to send more.....oh you going to out run every bullet lol even mike vick couldnt do that and hes the best just watch that eagles come back on the giants a few years back.

for the most part running is going to help extend plays or gain a few yards when a play break down.

yeah rg3 got in the playoffs to lose because he couldnt play well enough to win. all those hits while running aint worth it buddy. he was clearly hurt and should have had a coupe ints.

cam almost got injured bad in the pocket at the saints game.....and if he runs thats just going to increase his chances of getting hurt even more. you already going to take alot of shots in the pocket anyways.

and yeah pocket qbs get hurt but thats the oline fault...they are not bringing ill will to themselves.

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 01:18 PM

oh yeah if big ben(who can run decent) and cutler ran more that would cut down on there injuries lol they would just get hit MORE. lol

i guess since you can still get hit by a car on the sidewalk you should just walk on highway carefree. lol

if you can outrun a bullet you dont think the shooter is going to send more.....oh you going to out run every bullet lol even mike vick couldnt do that and hes the best just watch that eagles come back on the giants a few years back.

for the most part running is going to help extend plays or gain a few yards when a play break down.

yeah rg3 got in the playoffs to lose because he couldnt play well enough to win. all those hits while running aint worth it buddy. he was clearly hurt and should have had a coupe ints.

cam almost got injured bad in the pocket at the saints game.....and if he runs thats just going to increase his chances of getting hurt even more. you already going to take alot of shots in the pocket anyways.

and yeah pocket qbs get hurt but thats the oline fault...they are not bringing ill will to themselves.

And then again, you're a concerned fan of a team with an athletic QB. Nothing wrong with that and we can debate about his safety forever. But some people just don't like the 'new' QBs coming to the NFL. Those are the people I have a gripe against. If you don't like those 'new' QBs, you shouldn't like those 'old' WRs, CBs, RBs, TEs, DEs, etc. either. You can't hate those 'new' QBs but want your team to trade for Revis, per se, to help your pocket passer QB win games. That's too hypocritical, pathetic and I recommend hockey for their disease.

To diminish your concern, I don't know a dual threat QB whose career ever ended early do to injury. MacNabb had a long career. Only his mediocrity kept him off the field. Even vick's downfall was due to bad OL rather than downfiled injury.

#34 Matthias

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 02:15 PM

Cam is not as accurate as he could be but he sure as hell more accurate than that Luck guy people proclaim as the GOAT. Since Luck is such a 'pocket passer' and Cam is not(?), that means all Luck has to worry about is completing a pass and he can barely do that. What does that say about Luck's skill set. At least Cam will also rack up 750 yards.

Although Cam is not a gifted passer like a few other NFL QBs are, for everything else he brings to the table he doesn't need to be. But Luck on the other hand is also not a gifted passer, and if you're not and don't bring anything else to the table why are you being proclaimed to be the GOAT without merit.

And to answer your question, a dynamic dual threat QB who will not leave his teammates hanging on 4th & 4 when the lane is wide open in an AFC championship game.


Wait a minute, Cam can be very accurate. We've seen him do this multiple times. I just hope/wish he wants to be better in that area. Particularly throwing with anticipation.

#35 Mr. Scot

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 02:18 PM

There's no agenda against dual threat quarterbacks. The whole notion is silly.

The perception comes from the fact that some guys who are expected to be dual threats actually aren't.

Doesn't matter how good a runner you are. If you cannot become a consistent passer, you will not succeed in this league. That was true long before the rule changes made passing even more important than it had previously been. But in the aftermath of those changes, it's even more so.

If you can run and pass, teams will covet you.

If you can pass but can't run, teams will still want you and you can win Super Bowls.

If you can run but can't pass, teams will replace you.

And lemme tell you, that's not going to change.

Bottom Line: Newton is a guy that can do both, but he's rare. There aren't that many like him out there (if any). But even Newton's success is going to happen or not happen based on how good a passer he is. If he never ran the ball again, he could still win as long as his passing skills continue to develop.

That's just reality.

#36 BigSyke

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 03:36 PM

And then again, you're a concerned fan of a team with an athletic QB. Nothing wrong with that and we can debate about his safety forever. But some people just don't like the 'new' QBs coming to the NFL. Those are the people I have a gripe against. If you don't like those 'new' QBs, you shouldn't like those 'old' WRs, CBs, RBs, TEs, DEs, etc. either. You can't hate those 'new' QBs but want your team to trade for Revis, per se, to help your pocket passer QB win games. That's too hypocritical, pathetic and I recommend hockey for their disease.

To diminish your concern, I don't know a dual threat QB whose career ever ended early do to injury. MacNabb had a long career. Only his mediocrity kept him off the field. Even vick's downfall was due to bad OL rather than downfiled injury.



i know because they got smart and stopped running. remember that high powered offense(scored the most points ever, patriots passed them in 2007) the vikings had in 1998. randall cunningham led that team to the nfc championship and should have won if randy would have caught that deep ball. who would have known that randall could be that good at passing no one because most times he was running. when he stopped running he became a superbowl worthy qb. he had 34 passing tds to only 1 rushing td. that was his best year. same thing happen with mcnabb when he went to the superbowl. both qbs had superbowl years when they ran for the least yards in there careers.

hey maybe newton can be that special guy who has 38passing tds with about 16 rushing tds and win it all....i actually think he can do it...but i think he will end up getting hurt before he could do it. but he is big and durable so who knows man......

#37 GSO_Pantherz

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 03:39 PM

Lol someone got butt hurt over what I said. U mad bro?

#38 tiger7_88

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 03:48 PM

Understand this, I have no qualm against those who believes Cam should stay in the pocket more to avoid getting hit. But my concern is fans of teams whose QB is not dual threat that goes out of their ways to express their dislikes of that style of QBs and play. If your QB is Cam, Wilson, RG3, Kaepernick, Vick, etc. I understand your fear, but if Luck, Payton, Brady are your QB what is it to you that other QBs can run. Shouldn't it be a good thing that the opposition is injury prone if you're a Luck fan, per se?

I've been reading a lot where people keep saying when Randall Cunningham came out people thought he'd revolutionize the sport and how that never happened. Also emphasizing how those new hybrid QBs are a fad and they'll disappear as soon as one gets injured. My problem is, what is it to them? Why would it be a 'happy' thing for those hybrid QBs to just go away?

It's like saying you like women but don't like them tall and attractive. Which is okay, but why are you mad that other people like tall and attractive women? Why so bitter to the point of wanting them all disappear?


The NFL as an organization from the front office to the team offices to the coaches to the players to the fans are the most conservative areas of football known to man.

Innovation in football starts from the lower levels (college, sometimes even high school) and works its way UP the chain with the heaviest resistance to that innovation coming from the NFL.

Its just a fact of football life.

#39 rayzor

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 04:44 PM

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#40 Miaoww

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 05:47 PM

Out of interest why has Luck been lumped as an unathletic 'pocket passer'?

Is it because he's white? Check out his Combine numbers then shut the fug up.

#41 Doc Holiday

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 06:13 PM

Unless the college and high school games completely revert back to 80's style offenses, the hybrid/dual thread QB is here to stay.

You can either figure out a way to make that an advantage for your team, or you can hold onto antiquated beliefs and try to find a traditional QB in the ever diminishing pool of those type of QBs.

Every year, college QBs that play in pro style offense are overrated and guys that come from these innovative offenses are penalized. Yet year after year those pro style QBs bust and the hybrid QBs are starting to flourish.

i fully agree with your first two paragraphs but that last one your ingoring history on, dual threat QBs including micheal Vick have been for the most part complete busts until now its the reason why people are saying dual threat QBs won't work without an improved passing game, NFL defenses are just too good for any QB to think they can just run on them, it's a major injury waiting to happen like Vick, Culpepper and now RG3 you have to have a passing game to excel in the NFL

#42 FootballMaestro

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 07:18 PM

i fully agree with your first two paragraphs but that last one your ingoring history on, dual threat QBs including micheal Vick have been for the most part complete busts until now its the reason why people are saying dual threat QBs won't work without an improved passing game, NFL defenses are just too good for any QB to think they can just run on them, it's a major injury waiting to happen like Vick, Culpepper and now RG3 you have to have a passing game to excel in the NFL


I don't want to speak for someone else. But I think when Teeray said "innovative offenses", he just wasn't speaking about the Option or Option QB's who could run.

He was probably also speaking about many of the spread (and you can throw in Kelly's hurry up) offenses and their concepts, that even QB's like Brady and Peyton Manning, along with coaches as Belechick are using now. The spread started in the college ranks as well, and New England has adapted elements of Kelly's innovative hurry up offense.

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 09:12 PM

i know because they got smart and stopped running. remember that high powered offense(scored the most points ever, patriots passed them in 2007) the vikings had in 1998. randall cunningham led that team to the nfc championship and should have won if randy would have caught that deep ball. who would have known that randall could be that good at passing no one because most times he was running. when he stopped running he became a superbowl worthy qb. he had 34 passing tds to only 1 rushing td. that was his best year. same thing happen with mcnabb when he went to the superbowl. both qbs had superbowl years when they ran for the least yards in there careers.

hey maybe newton can be that special guy who has 38passing tds with about 16 rushing tds and win it all....i actually think he can do it...but i think he will end up getting hurt before he could do it. but he is big and durable so who knows man......

Cam just played 2 complete seasons with no injuries. The years he is working with the least talent and had to run more. With a good draft this year we might see a 9ers' type offense where he runs only when there is nothing down field and lane wide open. Hopefully the OL can be consistent because we got manhandled by the Broncos' defense while they got manhandled by the Ravens OL in the playoffs. I got jealous watching the Ravens OL operate. I have this feeling in the next 2 years, starting next year, we'll be a major force in the playoffs.

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 09:32 PM

Wait a minute, Cam can be very accurate. We've seen him do this multiple times. I just hope/wish he wants to be better in that area. Particularly throwing with anticipation.

Don't get me wrong, Cam is an accurate passer even in his down years. But there about just 2 or 3 QBs in the league who are just gifted when it comes to throwing the football and don't need that much fundamental. Aaron rodgers, RG3, and maybe Payton are like that. Those guys rarely throw wobbles and they're always accurate even when they miss. And they'll complete 60% of their passes even with the worse OL play. The Louisville QB Teddy Bridgewater is also like that too. Very gifted thrower of the football.

#45 FootballMaestro

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 09:47 PM

Don't get me wrong, Cam is an accurate passer even in his down years. But there about just 2 or 3 QBs in the league who are just gifted when it comes to throwing the football and don't need that much fundamental. Aaron rodgers, RG3, and maybe Payton are like that. Those guys rarely throw wobbles and they're always accurate even when they miss. And they'll complete 60% of their passes even with the worse OL play. The Louisville QB Teddy Bridgewater is also like that too. Very gifted thrower of the football.


I'm going to have to disagree with you here.

RG3 is not a legitimate pocket passer at this stage of his career. And if he played on the Panthers in 2012, he'd be worse than Cam, with the Panthers maybe winning 3-5 games. He had a very good Rookie year. And I'm glad for him. But please don't flatter/overrate him like that. Cousins was beating him out in training camp, so/till they catered the offense to him. Despite RG3's lofty QB rating, he was the beneficiary of a gimmick offense (one that you talk about so much, but curiously didn't realize that RG3 benefited from so much) and a strong run game. That's ironic.

RG3 was a one read/one zone, quick, short throw QB, where most of his plays were ran off of Zone reads, play actions, bootlegs, rolls out, misdirection and a lot of motion out of the Pistol. RG3 didn't have to read defenses the way they used him (or Cam did/does), and he was usually making short yardage throws (many behind the line of scrimmage), or to wide open receivers over the middle or down field. The Skins/Shanahan's zone blocking scheme (i.e. their run game), provided RG3, the pistol and their seemingly limitless misdirections, a multitude of ways to keep defenses off guard. Because of this, RG3 many times threw to receivers (for TD's or large gains, even on short yardage passing) who were wide open, with out a defender seemingly within 15 yards. Bad example!

Regarding Cam's accuracy, and other great QB's: You keep forgetting, that Peyton Manning had about 28 interceptions his Rookie season, and looked how he worked out? And Aaron Rogers?He didn't start for years, and sat behind Farve. How bad would he had been, if he started with the Panthers right out of college? Drew Brees was unimpressive his first several years in the league as well. And didn't find true success, till he went to New Orleans. Get my drift? So let's see how Cam progresses next year, especially after his stellar end of his 2012?

Based off what I've seen, I have no doubt, that Cam can be an excellent, accurate, NFL passer. Even now, he makes some great throws into tight windows (for example, that I've never seen RG3 and most NFL QB's make). And Greg Cossell (of NFL films), agrees and continually raves about Cam as a drop back/pocket QB and his future. Cam just needs more consistency. The tools are already there. He's not going to be Dan Marino overnight. And Remember, he's playing better now at this stage, than most of the very good and elite QB's did when they first came into the league. Let RG3, Kaepernick and Wilson (as far as the "hot" new guys), play on the Panthers last year, and see how well they would have done. More importantly Cam wants to be great, and should put the work in. So I don't understand why you want to limit his possibilities so young.

Any QB can look good with a excellent Offensive line. And Cam, frankly didn't have one last year, to add to the list. So let's cool off on what you're saying (especially when you were so dead wrong about RG3) regarding Cam's possibilities. .

Note: I very rarely EVER see Cam throw wobbly balls or non spirals. What Panther games are you watching?


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