66 replies to this topic

[Mr. Scot]

Out of interest why has Luck been lumped as an unathletic 'pocket passer'?

Is it because he's white? Check out his Combine numbers then shut the fug up.

Yeah. It's pretty silly.

[Mr. Scot]

Well if someone is 7 foot tall and work at McDonald's he is just a McDonald worker, not a center for the NY Knicks. That's the point I'm arguing. The idea of forcing players not to use their natural talent for the sake of being called pocket passers. Luck can easily run the read option and add an extra dimension to his team but because he is white they think it's below him. And we all know once he use the read option his license of being compared to Payton will be revoked and nobody would want that. Right!?

But I have the feeling, at some point in Luck's career when the option game really starts dominating the league someone will incorporate it in his game. No reason not to. The age of throwing the ball away when no one's open down field with a wide open lane is approaching it's end. QBs will not get away with leaving so many first downs on the field.

Oh good grief. Who the heck is "forcing someone not to use their natural talents"? That's one of the silliest things I've read on on here in a while

And again we have the same "game is changing" stuff that's people have been saying for years. What's especially goofy about it is people act like mobile quarterbacks are something new. Those of us old enough to remember guys like Fran Tarkenton know better.

No doubt someone will say "but the quarterbacks now are better athletes than those back then". Indeed they are. So are the linebackers, defensive tackles, tight ends, offensive linemen and pretty much every other position on the field.

The only actual change I've seen is the game is evolving more and more toward passing, so the ability to be an effective passer is more important than ever.

If you can also run, that's great, but rely on it too much and you risk shortening your career. If you're a great runner but a lousy passer, you'll be lucky to have much of a career at all.

[Mr. Scot]

Vick never got injured down field. All his injuries came by bad OL play in the back field. Culpepper was not a bust. He was an elite thrower of the football. Who else? What other dual threat QBs in this long NFL history who were bust?

Well, in this past 5 years alone I would say every single pocket passer were total bust. From #1 picks like palmer, linart, quinn to weedens, grossmans, clausens. Seriously, any successful pocket passers the last 5 years. I can't name one. While you're referring to 10 year vets like culpepper & vick. Is that all you got?

Actually Vick's OL were pretty good the year Ray Lewis broke his leg. But then regardless of whether his line was good or bad, Vick's finished...what? Two seasons without missing a game? Lousy example to use as a dual threat since he was never that great a passer.

And Culpepper? Seriously? Culpepper became utter crap the moment he lost Randy Moss as a receiver. He was the worst quarterback in the league well before Chris Gamble took his knee out.

As to the last five years, there have been precious few great QBs of any stripe that have come out, but the notion that only the pocket passers have been busts is dumb. This year's guys are too young to judge just yet, but guys like Andy Dalton, Christian Ponder and Matt Stafford are all pretty decent. Heck, even T J Yates had good moments. Oh, and there's also this guy who's playing in the Super Bowl next week.. Fellow by the name of Flacco. He was drafted in 2008.

Yeesh

Do yourself a favor and give up on this idea that only black QBs and read option guys are dual threats. Steve Young was one of the best ever and great at both areas. For that matter, very few pocket passers are all that immobile (Dan Marino was an exception, not a norm). They just aren't great running threats. And yet somehow, guys like Brees, Manning and Brady still manage some level of success even without that talent. And let's not forget a guy like Aaron Rodgers, someone who's perfectly capable of running but doesn't need to because he's extremely effective as a passer.

Bottom Line: Passing is still the skill quarterbacks need most to succeed. Running is a nice thing to have, but not necessary to become a winner.

And that's not likely to change anytime soon.

[BBQ&Beer]

And again we have the same "game is changing" stuff that's people have been saying for years. What's especially goofy about it is people act like mobile quarterbacks are something new. Those of us old enough to remember guys like Fran Tarkenton know better.

No doubt someone will say "but the quarterbacks now are better athletes than those back then". Indeed they are. So are the linebackers, defensive tackles, tight ends, offensive linemen and pretty much every other position on the field.

The only actual change I've seen is the game is evolving more and more toward passing, so the ability to be an effective passer is more important than ever.

Exactly, though i would add that the main things i see changing the game are advances in training, nutrition, & health care.

[Mr. Scot]

Exactly, though i would add that the main things i see changing the game are advances in training, nutrition, & health care.

Pretty much.

It's funny but I never hear the media talk about "the game changing" when there's a mobile white QB like Aaron Rodgers or Steve Young. Nor do I hear the people championing mobile QBs talk much about The Golden Calf of Bristol.

Like I said, you still have to be able to pass. If you can also run, great, but it's not required. And race means nothing. What determines your success is your skill, not your skin. But you'll still have people pushing that agenda for their own reasons.

I suspect the next guy to learn that you have to be an effective passer to succeed in the NFL will be Collin Klein.

[tiger7_88]

Those of you above that are of the opinion that what Cam, Kaep, RG3, and (to a lesser extent) Wilson are doing is the same thing that all the other QBs are doing, past and present?

Ummmm... OK.

Wow.

[FootballMaestro]

Also, the advantage RG3 had over Cam is that he played in the spread offense throwing the ball 40-50 times a game. From short to intermediate to long. While Cam play the zone read throwing the ball 15-20 times. That's why you notice Cam seems to struggle on short passes thus requiring more times to adapt. RG3 on the other hand can adapt to any offense because he spent 3 years in college throwing the ball 40 times a game. That might be the difference. Meaning RG3 was more polished. Cam only played 1 year in college. That's incredible how he was able to be the number 1 pick.

You and I both know Kousins wasn't beating RG3 in training. They picked Cousins so they could get their first round pick back on a future trade. Thus the organization leaked out meaningless info to put his name out there as some big time player. Andy reid did the same thing with colb.

So, you're telling me shanahan left RG3 playing hurt on one Leg in a playoffs game while a healthy two-legged big time star who was beating RG3 in camp sit in the sideline and watch? Let's not be crazy here. If that story were true, we'll find out how many teams show interest in Kousins in free agency where it matters. I doubt Kousins wants to be a back up the rest of his career.

Nothing wrong with giving credit where it's due. Game recognize game!

I've watched RG3 play. He doesn't read NFL defenses much. That's not what he's asked to do.

Most of Washington's offense is based off misdirection and play action. He's like a WCO QB, that play actions, bootlegs and Read Options most of the time. Yes, give him credit for his timing and accuracy. Absolutely! However, you could say the same about Alex Smith. So please don't say RG3 makes a lot of tough throws, cause he doesn't.

I"ve seen more tough throws in 1 Cam game sometimes, than I've seen RG3 make during stretches of games or the entire season, it seems.

And Griffin cannot throw the ball on a rope down field. He's needs loft to do that. His deep ball is okay. So I'm not sure what you're saying. Like I said, I've seen Cam throw the ball into extreme tight windows on a rope, that RG3 doesn't. He usually throws to wide open receivers. During Cam's rookie season, he even lofted some brilliant throws (like against Wash in 2011 for a TD) into super tight coverage.

Cousin's was reported to be better during camp. And RG3 was having trouble. This was widely reported or speculated during the pre-season. The reason why RG3 started, is the same reason why he played on one leg in the playoffs when he shouldn't have. The Redskins have a great investment in him; RG3's a run threat, and the DC fans loved him (even before he played his first game). They created a monster.

I'm not telling you RG3 doesn't have some attributes. Of course he does. But to compare him to Aaron Rogers or Drew Brees at this stage, is almost laughable, based off of what we seen (or haven't ) so far. SMH

Like I said earlier: Put RG3 on this years Panthers, with that offensive line, and he has a horrible year or doesn't finish the season. And I don't want Cam to run a majority gimmick offense, the way RG3 does either. I want Cam to be a pocket QB first, then run when he has to or a few designed plays a game.

When RG3 can play like that; get back to me! Cause my EYE Test Tells Me, that RG3 is not yet an NFL Drop back/Pocket, multi-read Quarterback at this stage.

[BigSyke]

i think it was cam first game against arizona when he read the defense and changed the play....after that he hit smith on that 70 yard td. cam also can be the most accuarte qb in the game then miss on some passes. its not whether cam can do the the things of an elite qb...its whether he can be CONSISTENT all through the year which makes him an elite qb.

here are some pinpoint throws by newton..check these times on the video- 2:10,3;05,5:07,5:34,5:56,8:06,9:22