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Post in this thread if you want to read and contribute to a thoughtful (if exhaustive) treatise on race and leadership in football


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#41 Mr. Scot

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 02:49 PM

all those those qbs have white girlfriends.....is that the problem with cam or no???


Only if you're Rob Parker.

#42 teeray

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 03:13 PM

The one criticism I have, and have had for a while, is that college football tends to do a poor job of training athletic QBs (both black and white, but mostly black) to be the kind of passers they need to be at the pro level. So is there an imbalance in the pros? if so, it starts at the college level.

You want to fix the problems? Fix them at the source.



I think that might have been true as recently as 8-10 years ago. But if you talk to anyone working with the elite high school QBs these days it is changing, and rapidly.

You are not seeing as much of these guys who can only do one or the other. More and more young QB are guys like Johnny Manziel, Cam Newton, Kap, RG3, etc. These young QBs are quickly evolving into true dual threat QBs who run 4.3-4.6 40's and can throw the ball on a rope.

This will very quickly become the norm, or at the very least more prevalent. There will always be guys like Manning and Brady, but the pool of players that are strictly pocket passers are drying up very quickly and athletic QBs are quickly evolving into good to great passers.

This is a revolution that isn't going away anytime soon. NFL is always behind the curve in evolution of football because of old preconceived notions. But when it becomes apparent that something is working at a very high level, they adjust very quickly.

Two years ago no one ran the read option and pistol in the NFL. Already 4 teams have now adopted it as a major part of their offense. Expect that number to grow over the next 5-10 years.

And you know what, the NFL is better and more entertaining because of it.

#43 footballisasport

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 03:13 PM

Your thread is well taken. I look at it this way. Say you guys were handsome as ever and well built, had the job of your dream and made big bucks. Evenmore is, no matter how much folks try to tear you down, things simply work out in our favor. That to me is how the media sees Cam and find any reason to keep attacking him. Their passive aggressive attitude cannot be over-looked

Let's be real, no one will ever say that RG speaks more articulately than Luck and it's a sign that RG is a better leader. And that' because there seem to be a unspoken belief that Luck is more intelligent and is set apart. Guess what, RG does speak more articulately than Luck, and those in the media slamming Cam for any dumb ish knows that. But, u know they will NEVER point that out. Also, if there is an audience that will buy any negative thing the media says about Cam,they will keep looking for anything about Cam they can pick apart to sell to them.

BTW, beingthe media's idea of a "team leader" is very over-rated, IMO, and has nothing to do with helping your team get to the SB, just ask Flacco. That should be your only concern when it comes to Cam. Are you doing everything you can to help him get the Panthers to the SB?

#44 Mr. Scot

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 03:20 PM

I think that might have been true as recently as 8-10 years ago. But if you talk to anyone working with the elite high school QBs these days it is changing, and rapidly.

You are not seeing as much of these guys who can only do one or the other. More and more young QB are guys like Johnny Manziel, Cam Newton, Kap, RG3, etc. These young QBs are quickly evolving into true dual threat QBs who run 4.3-4.6 40's and can throw the ball on a rope.

This will very quickly become the norm, or at the very least more prevalent. There will always be guys like Manning and Brady, but the pool of players that are strictly pocket passers are drying up very quickly and athletic QBs are quickly evolving into good to great passers.

This is a revolution that isn't going away anytime soon. NFL is always behind the curve in evolution of football because of old preconceived notions. But when it becomes apparent that something is working at a very high level, they adjust very quickly.

Two years ago no one ran the read option and pistol in the NFL. Already 4 teams have now adopted it as a major part of their offense. Expect that number to grow over the next 5-10 years.

And you know what, the NFL is better and more entertaining because of it.


I'm not so sure.

At the college level, you can win games with one super athlete at quarterback and a team of half-decent guys surrounding him. And because of that, there are still a lot of coaches subscribing to that formula to the detriment of their QBs future employment.

The only two coaches I knew of who spent serious effort on trying to teach their athletic QBs to be just as good at passing as they were at running (Bill Stewart of WVU and Jim Tressel of Ohio State) are no longer coaching in the college ranks. If there's anyone else who's taken up that mantle, I couldn't tell you who it is.

Maybe someone else can.

#45 Lumps

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 03:28 PM

Just thought I'd add and this could be elaborated on:
ethnicity= social/biological
race= man made, synonymous with color

There can be never ending number of ethnicities but very limited number of race.

Only thing I sort of see differentley is that things like ebonics are unique to ethnicity and culture for purpose of identity. That may be true but I find it as an age thing mainly. I don't see it used really at all with older people signifying to me its a 'to be cool' thing rather than really being something of culture/ethnicity, it's most defienetley both but seems to me a lot of people 'gow out of it' whether they are articulate with words or not. Not just ebonics either, any kind of slang really, that's my experience.

#46 teeray

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 05:03 PM

I'm not so sure.

At the college level, you can win games with one super athlete at quarterback and a team of half-decent guys surrounding him. And because of that, there are still a lot of coaches subscribing to that formula to the detriment of their QBs future employment.

The only two coaches I knew of who spent serious effort on trying to teach their athletic QBs to be just as good at passing as they were at running (Bill Stewart of WVU and Jim Tressel of Ohio State) are no longer coaching in the college ranks. If there's anyone else who's taken up that mantle, I couldn't tell you who it is.

Maybe someone else can.


I think that almost every coach tries to develop their QB into better passers. Not all of the QBs succeed in that endeavor and you will see coaches scheme around the QBs shortcomings.

NFL QBs, whether they are athletic or not, are rare. There is 119 teams and maybe 6 or 7 QBs get drafted a year. Most QBs aren't very good NFL prospects

My point was, that high school QBs that are coming through the pipeline are more and more athletic and can now throw the ball very well. More and more athletic QBs are developing at a younger and younger age. They are starting to look more and more like RG3 and Cam. There is also less and less of the traditional straight drop back pocket passer because so few teams are running an offense that caters to those QBs.

The pool of QBs that are dual threat QBs is growing and growing. The pool of QBs that are just drop back passers is shrinking and shrinking.

As far as coaches that try to teach QBs to pass just as well as run. Gus Malzhan, Larry Fedora, Dave Doeren, Kevin Sumlin (he is actually a pass first, and if you can run we will adjust type coach), and many more that run these types of offenses, want balance on offense. But sometimes players can't provide that balance so they adjust to their QB.

But I think all of them try to develop their QBs as passers as well as runners.

#47 PhillyB

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 06:05 PM

Nice post, Phil. One criticism: "Treatise" is spelled with an 'e'.


fixed, good catch... i have no idea how i missed that

#48 fjblair

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 06:51 PM

I use too much shaving cream. I've been shaving for many many years and I've still not got it figured out! I wash a lot of shaving cream down the drain because I squirt more than I need into my hand.



No doubt. Yet the can still lasts for months. Perplexing.

#49 CarolinaCoolin

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 06:55 PM

I'm white and from my point of view I don't see these guys as being more white friendly then the others. I like cam because of his talent. I like Russell Wilson because of his talent. I like kaepernick because of his talent. I like any player because of his talent level. I feel if you go into a "white group" watching football and ask if they like him or not you'll find that if he is on the team they like they'll love him regardless of being white friendly. Ask them about a player on a rival team they will not like him because he plays for that team. I feel like this whole white friendly non sense is a myth. When we get past seeing someone race first is when we get past all of this.

#50 KendrickPanther

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Posted 01 February 2013 - 10:05 PM

5 Million more words spoken means the child hearing a word. Wealthier and better educated parents tend to spend more time reading and speaking to their children. The child does not need to hear 5 million unique words. Simply hear the English language spoken repeatedly and process that in their brains. Children learn language through repetition.


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