158 replies to this topic

[Lumps]

Anyone else notice out version of it was so much slower than WAS or SF

more like an all around shittier version

[Lumps]

Seeing those teams play it is obvious to me:

1. We do not have the Oline we need. Not even close.
2. Our secondary is god fuging awful
3. We have no recievers, Lafell should be competiting for #3, not our best option at #2 (besides an aging smitty who really needs a Welker/slot/#2 type role) Complete neglect at wr.
4. We have no coaching
5. Our run game spending has hurt us more than anything since we have Cam
6. JR sucks, you know I had to

[teeray]

Picture this. Would a RB getting a handoff straight to the desired location be faster than a RB having to wait for the QB to read the defense, stopping still, be faster? Hmmmm....this is getting borderline retarded.

Well in a read option that shouldn't happen. The RB should be lined up to the side and slightly behind the QB. The QB is supposed to just turn, read the DE or linebacker, and either give or keep, all without the RB breaking stride.

In the scenario you just presented the QB would not be making a quick enough read if it is that slow to develop. Thus they wouldn't be running it right.

[TheRumGone]

Well in a read option that shouldn't happen. The RB should be lined up to the side and slightly behind the QB. The QB is supposed to just turn, read the DE or linebacker, and either give or keep, all without the RB breaking stride.

In the scenario you just presented the QB would not be making a quick enough read if it is that slow to develop. Thus they wouldn't be running it right.

I must be watching a different team than you. 95% of the time, there is a pause.

[teeray]

I must be watching a different team than you. 95% of the time, there is a pause.

If we were running it right there shouldn't be a pause and it shouldn't affect when the RB hits the hole. This is an offense that has to adjust always.

Here is how Chip Kelly explains it:

Edit: Welp I was going to copy from a clinic paper that Kelly had on his offense but i will have to paraphrase because for some reason this site wouldn't let me do it.

Basically, he said that the coach needs to know when the RB is hitting the hole. If he is hitting the hole too late, the coaches need to move the RB up. If he is hitting the hole too early, you move the RB back further. He said you don't adjust the speed of the play to get the timing right you change your alignment.

It was a little more complex than that, but that was the gist of it.


If there is an issue with how long it is taking a RB to get to the hole the offensive coordinator is supposed to adjust his and possibly the QB's alignment. Move them closer to the O-line.

This offense is so complex and simple at the same time. But it requires very detailed adjustments to how you line up in the backfield and a faster pace to make sure the assignments are correct and to see how the defense is going to defend it.

We were slow getting out of the huddle and were not able to audible. Those are the two most important factors of running that kind of offense and we did neither.

As far as adjusting alignment of the QB and RB I don't know if Chud did made changes in that regard or not.

[Gabeking]

Well, Kaep is part of the read option system. To run a read option you need a certain types of QB to run it thus resulting in defenses game planning for not only the option but also a scramble. You can't analyze the read option independently of Kaep's physical ability. It's because he is a read option QB that's why he is able to scramble. What the 9ers run is an offensive system. Once Kaep is removed from that system then a new system need to be created for the next QB.

The Panthers need an offensive system for Cam as well that includes the read options, the scrambles, the play actions, and everything else. Some offensive systems are more limited than others.

Maybe the reason Kaep was able to scramble was because the defense put to much effort in stopping the read options thus leaving open gaps in the defense. Food for thought, of course.

Aren't you the guy who said cam should be running out of the option 70% of the time??

[Marguide]

My thoughts at the late stage of this discussion:

1) Smitty is a great receiver. That said, I'm not ready to hire him as our OC.

2) We did, in fact, run the read option less toward the end of the year, and that seemed to help our offense. But in fairness there were other factors as well, including letting Cam audible, focusing on shorter pass patterns that allowed Cam to get rid of the ball quicker, and a greater overall commitment to the run game.

3) Early in the year, I often knew when it was pass or run by how close the RB was to the QB. Others have suggested we tipped off defenses by the stance of our o-linemen. Whatever the case, we were not disguising our read option runs very well, and that hurt it's effectiveness. Personally, I like the read option when it's not overused.

4) Cam's mechanics often seem better when he plays under center. Too often he threw flat-footed out of the gun. That is pertinent because the read option isn't run from under center, so we had fewer opportunities to call that play later in the year.

5) Since when do you have to be a current member of the Panthers to have a valid opinion? What tells you that Smitty is more of a student of the game than Trent Dilfer? Do great players dominate coaching ranks? So because Dilfer wasn't great or a Panther we should automatically discount his opinion?

I like it when we establish the other elements of our offense first then can keep them guessing with occasional r-o plays.

[Mr. Scot]

If Smith doesn't shut up with his old ass he might find himself in the chopping block to clear up cap space. The only time I hear about Smith is when he is whining about something.

Pretty clear you don't follow the Panthers at all.