Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Alternate Solutions to the Crowded Backfield

50 posts in this topic

Posted · Report post

[quote name='B.B.' timestamp='1360858693' post='2134923']
Deangelo is gone guys. Stop kidding yourselves.
[/quote]

With the cap hit that cutting him would create, it is not a foregone conclusion that he is released.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

[quote name='CRA' timestamp='1360895154' post='2135515']
Stewart runs better behind a bad OL

Stewart can play through injury better

Stewart is younger

Rivera prefers a healthy Stewart over a healthy Williams. How do I know that? After Williams got his big deal Rivera played Stewart a larger percentage of offensive snaps than any RB in our division. The next year? He went ahead and benched Williams officially.
[/quote]

And DeAngelo had a great end to the season behind that "bad" line....so your conclusions are inaccurate.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

[quote name='MadHatter' timestamp='1360931228' post='2135704']


And DeAngelo had a great end to the season behind that "bad" line....so your conclusions are inaccurate.
[/quote]

Which specific ones do you find most inaccurate

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

[quote name='CRA' timestamp='1360933206' post='2135714']
Which specific ones do you find most inaccurate
[/quote]
2 09/16 [url="http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2012091601/2012/REG2/saints@panthers/watch"][img]http://i.nflcdn.com/static/site/4.16/img/videoicon.gif[/img][/url][url="http://www.nfl.com/teams/profile?team=NO"] NO [/url] W [url="http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2012091601/2012/REG2/saints@panthers"] 35-27 [/url] 1 0 11 51 [u]4.6[/u] 16 0 1 17 17.0 17T 1 -- -- 3 09/20 [url="http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2012092000/2012/REG3/giants@panthers/watch"][img]http://i.nflcdn.com/static/site/4.16/img/videoicon.gif[/img][/url][url="http://www.nfl.com/teams/profile?team=NYG"] NYG [/url] L [url="http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2012092000/2012/REG3/giants@panthers"] 7-36 [/url] 0 0 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- 4 09/30 [url="http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2012093004/2012/REG4/panthers@falcons/watch"][img]http://i.nflcdn.com/static/site/4.16/img/videoicon.gif[/img][/url][url="http://www.nfl.com/teams/profile?team=ATL"] @ ATL [/url] L [url="http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2012093004/2012/REG4/panthers@falcons"] 28-30 [/url] 1 0 10 40 4.0 15 0 1 8 8.0 8 0 -- -- 5 10/07 [url="http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2012100707/2012/REG5/seahawks@panthers/watch"][img]http://i.nflcdn.com/static/site/4.16/img/videoicon.gif[/img][/url][url="http://www.nfl.com/teams/profile?team=SEA"] SEA [/url] L [url="http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2012100707/2012/REG5/seahawks@panthers"] 12-16 [/url] 1 0 4 16 4.0 11 0 2 15 7.5 8 0 1 0 6 Bye -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- 7 10/21 [url="http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2012102102/2012/REG7/cowboys@panthers/watch"][img]http://i.nflcdn.com/static/site/4.16/img/videoicon.gif[/img][/url][url="http://www.nfl.com/teams/profile?team=DAL"] DAL [/url] L [url="http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2012102102/2012/REG7/cowboys@panthers"] 14-19 [/url] 1 1 10 35 3.5 20 0 3 11 3.7 9 0 -- -- 8 10/28 [url="http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2012102806/2012/REG8/panthers@bears/watch"][img]http://i.nflcdn.com/static/site/4.16/img/videoicon.gif[/img][/url][url="http://www.nfl.com/teams/profile?team=CHI"] @ CHI [/url] L [url="http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2012102806/2012/REG8/panthers@bears"] 22-23 [/url] 1 1 17 42 2.5 13 0 4 38 9.5 15 0 -- -- 9 11/04 [url="http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2012110400/2012/REG9/panthers@redskins/watch"][img]http://i.nflcdn.com/static/site/4.16/img/videoicon.gif[/img][/url][url="http://www.nfl.com/teams/profile?team=WAS"] @ WAS [/url] W [url="http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2012110400/2012/REG9/panthers@redskins"] 21-13 [/url] 1 1 10 [u]51[/u] [u]5.1[/u] 21 0 1 6 6.0 6 0 -- -- 10 11/11 [url="http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2012111100/2012/REG10/broncos@panthers/watch"][img]http://i.nflcdn.com/static/site/4.16/img/videoicon.gif[/img][/url][url="http://www.nfl.com/teams/profile?team=DEN"] DEN [/url] L [url="http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2012111100/2012/REG10/broncos@panthers"] 14-36 [/url] 1 1 8 31 3.9 14 0 2 23 11.5 19 0 1 0 11 11/18 [url="http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2012111803/2012/REG11/buccaneers@panthers/watch"][img]http://i.nflcdn.com/static/site/4.16/img/videoicon.gif[/img][/url][url="http://www.nfl.com/teams/profile?team=TB"] TB [/url] L [url="http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2012111803/2012/REG11/buccaneers@panthers"] 21-27 [/url] 1 1 15 43 2.9 11 1 1 30 30.0 30 0 -- -- 12 11/26 [url="http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2012112600/2012/REG12/panthers@eagles/watch"][img]http://i.nflcdn.com/static/site/4.16/img/videoicon.gif[/img][/url][url="http://www.nfl.com/teams/profile?team=PHI"] @ PHI [/url] W [url="http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2012112600/2012/REG12/panthers@eagles"] 30-22 [/url] 1 1 8 27 3.4 12 0 2 9 4.5 7 0


I would just say biased. You're saying that other teams are not going to want to sign DW(4.3 per carry) because if you take away his 2 best games he only averaged 3.3 yds per carry. At the same time Stewart averaged 3.6 and he is is the ideal back. If you take away Stewart's 2 best games(Saints,Skins) he only averaged 3.2 per carry, again less than DW who you say won't garner interest .

So that is obviously a biased statement to say Stew is an ideal back and Deangelo will have a hard time making a roster when using the same criteria for Stew shows he played worse than the guy you're slamming. The only way that is logical is your personal bias. Like I said I get the other points you are making about carries and cap hit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

[quote name='MasterAwesome' timestamp='1360915488' post='2135677']
Why is everyone obsessing over a "home-run threat"...look at the seasons Alfred Morris and Marshawn Lynch just had. They were 2 of the top 3 HBs statistically in the NFL this year and they're power backs. I think Jonathan Stewart is very similar to Morris/Lynch, a power runner but with deceptive speed and shiftiness. We just need to shore up the o-line and play calling and I'm sure Stewart is gonna tear it up next season barring injury.
[/quote]

Just what I was gonna say.


To me, it is very shortsighted and, frankly, "homeristic" to think that Stew should be cut as opposed to D-Will (if it comes down to it). Stewart is younger and stronger, arguably a better pass catcher, and is just beginning his prime. Both backs ave similar production and health history (but if you want to get technical, Stewart edges Williams on both counts). Why would you not go with the younger, stronger and cheaper back?

The Chargers kept Tomlinson when they should have kept the Burner, but they went all EMO, and their running game gradually lost its effectiveness and basically fell off a cliff comparatively (especially once nature and business took its course and Tomlinson was ultimately axed).

Everybody would like to keep D-Will, but business is business.

Lastly, Armond Smith is coming up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

[quote name='poorboysrev' timestamp='1360935002' post='2135731']

2 09/16 [url="http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2012091601/2012/REG2/saints@panthers/watch"][img]http://i.nflcdn.com/static/site/4.16/img/videoicon.gif[/img][/url][url="http://www.nfl.com/teams/profile?team=NO"] NO [/url] W [url="http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2012091601/2012/REG2/saints@panthers"] 35-27 [/url] 1 0 11 51 [u]4.6[/u] 16 0 1 17 17.0 17T 1 -- -- 3 09/20 [url="http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2012092000/2012/REG3/giants@panthers/watch"][img]http://i.nflcdn.com/static/site/4.16/img/videoicon.gif[/img][/url][url="http://www.nfl.com/teams/profile?team=NYG"] NYG [/url] L [url="http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2012092000/2012/REG3/giants@panthers"] 7-36 [/url] 0 0 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- 4 09/30 [url="http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2012093004/2012/REG4/panthers@falcons/watch"][img]http://i.nflcdn.com/static/site/4.16/img/videoicon.gif[/img][/url][url="http://www.nfl.com/teams/profile?team=ATL"] @ ATL [/url] L [url="http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2012093004/2012/REG4/panthers@falcons"] 28-30 [/url] 1 0 10 40 4.0 15 0 1 8 8.0 8 0 -- -- 5 10/07 [url="http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2012100707/2012/REG5/seahawks@panthers/watch"][img]http://i.nflcdn.com/static/site/4.16/img/videoicon.gif[/img][/url][url="http://www.nfl.com/teams/profile?team=SEA"] SEA [/url] L [url="http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2012100707/2012/REG5/seahawks@panthers"] 12-16 [/url] 1 0 4 16 4.0 11 0 2 15 7.5 8 0 1 0 6 Bye -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- 7 10/21 [url="http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2012102102/2012/REG7/cowboys@panthers/watch"][img]http://i.nflcdn.com/static/site/4.16/img/videoicon.gif[/img][/url][url="http://www.nfl.com/teams/profile?team=DAL"] DAL [/url] L [url="http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2012102102/2012/REG7/cowboys@panthers"] 14-19 [/url] 1 1 10 35 3.5 20 0 3 11 3.7 9 0 -- -- 8 10/28 [url="http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2012102806/2012/REG8/panthers@bears/watch"][img]http://i.nflcdn.com/static/site/4.16/img/videoicon.gif[/img][/url][url="http://www.nfl.com/teams/profile?team=CHI"] @ CHI [/url] L [url="http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2012102806/2012/REG8/panthers@bears"] 22-23 [/url] 1 1 17 42 2.5 13 0 4 38 9.5 15 0 -- -- 9 11/04 [url="http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2012110400/2012/REG9/panthers@redskins/watch"][img]http://i.nflcdn.com/static/site/4.16/img/videoicon.gif[/img][/url][url="http://www.nfl.com/teams/profile?team=WAS"] @ WAS [/url] W [url="http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2012110400/2012/REG9/panthers@redskins"] 21-13 [/url] 1 1 10 [u]51[/u] [u]5.1[/u] 21 0 1 6 6.0 6 0 -- -- 10 11/11 [url="http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2012111100/2012/REG10/broncos@panthers/watch"][img]http://i.nflcdn.com/static/site/4.16/img/videoicon.gif[/img][/url][url="http://www.nfl.com/teams/profile?team=DEN"] DEN [/url] L [url="http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2012111100/2012/REG10/broncos@panthers"] 14-36 [/url] 1 1 8 31 3.9 14 0 2 23 11.5 19 0 1 0 11 11/18 [url="http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2012111803/2012/REG11/buccaneers@panthers/watch"][img]http://i.nflcdn.com/static/site/4.16/img/videoicon.gif[/img][/url][url="http://www.nfl.com/teams/profile?team=TB"] TB [/url] L [url="http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2012111803/2012/REG11/buccaneers@panthers"] 21-27 [/url] 1 1 15 43 2.9 11 1 1 30 30.0 30 0 -- -- 12 11/26 [url="http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2012112600/2012/REG12/panthers@eagles/watch"][img]http://i.nflcdn.com/static/site/4.16/img/videoicon.gif[/img][/url][url="http://www.nfl.com/teams/profile?team=PHI"] @ PHI [/url] W [url="http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2012112600/2012/REG12/panthers@eagles"] 30-22 [/url] 1 1 8 27 3.4 12 0 2 9 4.5 7 0


I would just say biased. You're saying that other teams are not going to want to sign DW(4.3 per carry) because if you take away his 2 best games he only averaged 3.3 yds per carry. At the same time Stewart averaged 3.6 and he is is the ideal back. If you take away Stewart's 2 best games(Saints,Skins) he only averaged 3.2 per carry, again less than DW who you say won't garner interest .

So that is obviously a biased statement to say Stew is an ideal back and Deangelo will have a hard time making a roster when using the same criteria for Stew shows he played worse than the guy you're slamming. The only way that is logical is your personal bias. Like I said I get the other points you are making about carries and cap hit.
[/quote]
I don't think you put a lot of stock in something when a guy does something against the worst D in NFL history. That isn't exactly cherry picking two good games and throwing them out.

Williams easily had his worst season in 2012. He couldn't make something out of nothing....which he could in his prime. Stewart can...he can help move the chains even when playing gimpy. Pile moves forward.

30 yr old expensive RBs with fat contracts simply aren't what teams want...in today's NFL that isn't going to attract someone to trade with.

Neither RB is ideal at this point. Both are expensive....one is one the backside of his career and doesn't fit a Cam offense ideally and the other seems to only be able to suit up at 80%.

Stewart simply makes the most sense to go forward. It isn't a Williams love hate thing. He just is a bad fit based on the scenario going forward.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

[quote name='CRA' timestamp='1360996056' post='2136489']
[u]I don't think you put a lot of stock in something when a guy does something against the worst D in NFL history. That isn't exactly cherry picking two good games and throwing them out.[/u]

Williams easily had his worst season in 2012. He couldn't make something out of nothing....which he could in his prime. Stewart can...he can help move the chains even when playing gimpy. Pile moves forward.

30 yr old expensive RBs with fat contracts simply aren't what teams want...in today's NFL that isn't going to attract someone to trade with.

Neither RB is ideal at this point. Both are expensive....one is one the backside of his career and doesn't fit a Cam offense ideally and the other seems to only be able to suit up at 80%.

Stewart simply makes the most sense to go forward. It isn't a Williams love hate thing. He just is a bad fit based on the scenario going forward.
[/quote]I

One of Stewart's games I threw out was his game against New Orleans. The other Washington. That's as close to even as you can get. And doing that his 3.6 became 3.2 yds.

Again I'm not arguing capwise that it makes sense, or that both RB's need more carries to really be effective. I was just taking exception with you saying that no other team is going to take Dwil. A 200+yd game is still that and the other big play tds he had show he has more left in the tank then Our offense showed. New Orleans also showed that he needs 15 to 25 touches. He wouldn't get that here.

Also the switching of him and Stew out every 2 snaps keeps either from getting into rhythm. I just think it's reasonable for me to say with a change of scenery to a team like Denver and DW can have a strong last couple years.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

[quote name='poorboysrev' timestamp='1361023032' post='2136530']
I

One of Stewart's games I threw out was his game against New Orleans. The other Washington. That's as close to even as you can get. And doing that his 3.6 became 3.2 yds.

Again I'm not arguing capwise that it makes sense, or that both RB's need more carries to really be effective. I was just taking exception with you saying that no other team is going to take Dwil. A 200+yd game is still that and the other big play tds he had show he has more left in the tank then Our offense showed. New Orleans also showed that he needs 15 to 25 touches. He wouldn't get that here.

Also the switching of him and Stew out every 2 snaps keeps either from getting into rhythm. I just think it's reasonable for me to say with a change of scenery to a team like Denver and DW can have a strong last couple years.
[/quote]

Well if you just throw out the games against historically the worst D in the history of the sport.....Stewart had a slightly better ypc against the rest of the teams while gimpy.

No team is going to trade for Williams. If he is cut and a team can sign him to an appropriate deal then sure....someone would be interested. But as of right now, no team wants him as he currently sits.

Most games this year giving Williams that many touches would of just stalled the O. No holes. He needs them. He goes down too easy at contact.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Oh what a difference a year makes. Very knowledgeable fanbase (sarcasm)

http://www.carolinahuddle.com/boards/topic/70091-if-stewart-isnt-traded-it-will-be-because/page__hl__%20sign%20%20stewart

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

i never said trade him. that contract is too big and player trades are rare. Release him and let him go find the best situation for him. I just think he has more left in the tank than you do. Stewarts only decent games(by that almost 50 yds were New Orleans, and Washington. I don't think much more of the Redskins defense than the Saints but whatever.
Your also totally dismissing the other 40 and 50 yd td receptions and scores Deangelo had. That's a big reason we beat Atlanta. To me Stewart needs oline push just as much, because his first couple steps are slower than Deangelo's. But all that's just personal difference of opinion between us.
I think Stewart coming from a read option offense, having a leg up because of that, and not doing anything sh#t with it means something. You're grading Dwill on a harder curve when that is a different O for him. Frank Gore didn't like it this year either but he has a road grader line that makes anything easier. System matters.
Again i don't care about th Stew vs DW stuff at this point. I just think he can have a Corey dillon/Stephen Davis type career resurgence if picked up by a decent team

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

[quote name='stirs' timestamp='1361025158' post='2136536']
Oh what a difference a year makes. Very knowledgeable fanbase (sarcasm)

[url="http://www.carolinahuddle.com/boards/topic/70091-if-stewart-isnt-traded-it-will-be-because/page__hl__%20sign%20%20stewart"]http://www.carolinah..._ sign stewart[/url]
[/quote]

And your point?

Many of us have basically said the same thing since the cap problem of having two good backs (and paying one like a top 5 back and the other like a to 10 back) began showing on the radar. In retrospect, it was nice to have Double Trouble, but I could argue that Double Trouble arose out of a mistake because most didn't see D-Will breaking out like he did in 2008. IMHO Stew was drafted to be the guy because D-Will was thought to be only a scat-back, situational RB. Just like most of us didn't see Double Trouble coming, we especially didn't see Marty Hurney (J-Rich) creating the real problem, which was overpaying D-Will when they probably should have let him walk (to Green Bay). Double Trouble, in real terms, was a nice "problem" to have, but the real problem didn't begin until the money entered into the equation. Moreover, the confusion was exacerbated, and the situation became even more cloudy when both lines were gutted of veteran leadership, Otah evolved into a bust, and offensive schemes and philosophies left our RBs in positions not to succeed (or maximize their talent).

To me, both backs still have something to offer, but Stewart is the younger guy just beginning his prime.

[quote name='poorboysrev' timestamp='1361026003' post='2136543']
i never said trade him. that contract is too big and player trades are rare. Release him and let him go find the best situation for him. I just think he has more left in the tank than you do. Stewarts only decent games(by that almost 50 yds were New Orleans, and Washington. I don't think much more of the Redskins defense than the Saints but whatever.
Your also totally dismissing the other 40 and 50 yd td receptions and scores Deangelo had. That's a big reason we beat Atlanta. To me Stewart needs oline push just as much, because his first couple steps are slower than Deangelo's. But all that's just personal difference of opinion between us.
I think Stewart coming from a read option offense, having a leg up because of that, and not doing anything sh#t with it means something. You're grading Dwill on a harder curve when that is a different O for him. Frank Gore didn't like it this year either but he has a road grader line that makes anything easier. System matters.
Again i don't care about th Stew vs DW stuff at this point. I just think he can have a Corey dillon/Stephen Davis type career resurgence if picked up by a decent team
[/quote]

As for me, I have always said that D-Will still has something left in the tank. But, I have also said that it would be foolish and shortsighted to go with the older guy when you have a younger guy with a similar injury history, more power, and slightly better numbers when it comes to all-purpose yards since the time both were in the league.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted · Report post

Delete needs to be an option when we do double posts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites