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Happy Panther

Lawsuit: Race-based request sidelined Michigan nurse

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No, we wouldn't want anyone to get hurt, and that's kind of an important factor here.

You really think hospital security is so intimidating that this guy is just gonna back down and do nothing? Unless this hospital has the most badass security guards in the country, I wouldn't bet on it (obviously they didn't think so).

As far as the lawyers, they're a lot like HR guys. It's their job to be paranoid.

You can be flip about that sitting in front of your computer, but being in the actual situation with an obviously off-kilter guy right there in front of you, not so much. You act like risking harm to the nurse is no big deal. Seriously? :blink:

I was being sarcastic. I wonder how the civil rights movement would have gone if all those people had simply sat down, shut up and just took the racism because of fear from the various means of intimidation by the bigots that existed and still exist today. I guess that's the way some in this country wish it could be. Good thing it isn't.

My word Mr. Scot you are giving this clown waaaaaay too much credit, what is he some super villain?

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I was being sarcastic. I wonder how the civil rights movement would have gone if all those people had simply sat down, shut up and just took the racism because of fear from the various means of intimidation by the bigots in this country. I guess that's the way some in this country wish it could be. Good thing it isn't.

My word Mr. Scot you are giving this clown waaaaaay too much credit, what is he some super villain?

You don't exactly have to be a super villain to wait in a parking lot and jump somebody (or follow them home and go after them, for that matter).

And do you really wanna compare institutional racism to one guy being an asshole?

Are towns that allow Klan members to hold demonstrations or display racist symbols "accommodating racism"?

The hospital's prime concern is going to be the baby. It has to be. Taking this nurse off the baby's care isn't adversely affecting. Having to deal with the father's anger at his wishes not being met could be adverse to a lot of people.

Sometimes unpleasant people do unpleasant things. You might hate it, but often there's nothing that can be done about it.

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You don't exactly have to be a super villain to wait in a parking lot and jump somebody (or follow them home and go after them, for that matter).

Why do we keep returning to this retaliation angle? So basically someone can do whatever they want if they are threatening. Got it.

And do you really wanna compare institutional racism to one guy being an asshole?

Being a white supremacist/neo nazi is hardly the same as your average run of the mill asshole.

Are towns that allow Klan members to hold demonstrations or display racist symbols "accommodating racism"?

Is this a serious question? Yes they absolutely are. It's the kkk. They aren't selling girl scout cookies, they're preaching hatred.

The hospital's prime concern is going to be the baby. It has to be. Taking this nurse off the baby's care isn't adversely affecting. Having to deal with the father's anger at his wishes not being met could be adverse to a lot of people.

Sometimes unpleasant people do unpleasant things. You might hate it, but often there's nothing that can be done about it.

Yes the baby AND the mother, not some prick father who chooses a hospital of all places to force his flawed idealogy on the general population.

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Is this a serious question? Yes they absolutely are. It's the kkk. They aren't selling girl scout cookies, they're preaching hatred.

And here's where we come to the heart of the issue...

What do you do, legally, to stop them?

They have the same First Amendment rights you do, remember? You may not like it, but unless you're ready to make some major changes to the Constitution, you can't change it. And lemme tell ya, you don't really want those kinds of changes made.

This is why your argument fails, because you're not recognizing that there's a significant difference between what's unpleasant and what's unlawful.

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See, this is why we're governed by laws rather than emotions.

We see something that's unjust. Automatically we think "Somebody's gotta pay".

Fine, except there's no way to make the guy who's actually at the heart of this pay for what he did because he didn't break any actual laws.

"Okay, so let's make the hospital pay. They let this happen."

Except again, the hospital didn't actually cause any harm to the nurse. She didn't lose money, time, status or anything else. All that ultimately happened was she was offended (and I seriously doubt she was the only one).

"But they facilitated this guy being a racist."

No, they were put in a no-win situation and made the best choice in a lousy situation. Chances are the people who made the decision weren't exactly happy about it either, but felt it was what they had to do.

"Well, they still should pay, because somebody should."

Is that your definition of justice? It's not a very good one.

Again, the bottom line is that the hospital had to hold it's nose and do something they wouldn't have wanted to in order to avoid the risk of something even worse. Yeah, it's bad, but it's ultimately the right call.

And it's not worthy of a lawsuit.

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And here's where we come to the heart of the issue...

What do you do, legally, to stop them?

They have the same First Amendment rights you do, remember?

This is why your argument fails, because you're not recognizing that there's a significant difference between what's unpleasant and what's unlawful.

You said nothing about stopping them nor did I, you said was the town participating in racism by allowing them to do it. Yes they are. Of course it is in their rights to do so. That doesn't mean we can't call it what it really is.

I didn't peg you as a bigots rights advocate Mr. Scot lol, but hey have at it.

We aren't going to agree, we are essentially two brick walls repeatedly running into each other.

I said good say sir!

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You said nothing about stopping them nor did I, you said the was the town participating in racism by allowing them to do it. Yes they are. Of course it is in their rights to do so. That doesn't mean we can't call it what it really is.

I didn't peg you as a bigots rights advocate Mr. Scot lol, but hey have at it.

We aren't going to agree, we are essentially two brick walls repeatedly running into each other.

I said good say sir!

Using that logic, the whole country is participating in it because they don't just outlaw people being bigots.

You can regulate institutional practices, but as mentioned many times, this case isn't one of institutional racism. It's one of a hospital making the best of a bad situation to avoid larger problems.

I'll add a pertinent quote.

"You can't take away people's right to be assholes."

- Simon Phoenix

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We truely have reached the bottom of the barrel in discussion if we are quoting Demolition Man lol.

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We truely have reached the bottom of the barrel in discussion if we are quoting Demolition Man lol.

Nah.

When somebody quotes Pauly Shore, then we've gone to hell in a handbasket.

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"In the long run no individual and no race can succeed which sets itself at war against the common good; for "in the gain or loss of one race, all the rest have equal claim."

-Booker T Washington

"The only time when the ***** problem is insoluble is when men insist on settling it wrong by asking absolutely contradictory things. You cannot make 10,000,000 people at one and the same time servile and dignified, docile and self-reliant, servants and independent leaders, segregated and yet part of the industrial organism, disfranchised and citizens of a democracy, ignorant and intelligent. This is impossible and the impossibility is not factitious; it is in the very nature of things."

-W.E.B. Dubois in a letter to then President Woodrow Wilson

This whole conversation smells awfully like the separate but equal debate.

i.e. "Segregation/discrimination is okay because it doesn't really hurt anyone."

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So I talked to a lawyer friend of mine who is totally not made up and if you wanna look him up his name is Lawyer J. Lawyerpants.

He said that, while reassigning her against her will by itself wasn't grounds for discrimination, the written memos are. Basically what you have here is something written officially by the hospital's management, making it an official policy of the hospital that no black nurses can care for this retard's baby. Whether originally facilitated by the patient's husband or not, the higher ups essentially codified it into written policy when they put that note on the baby's medical chart. So if she can prove it, the hospital is fuged.

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So I talked to a lawyer friend of mine who is totally not made up and if you wanna look him up his name is Lawyer J. Lawyerpants.

He said that, while reassigning her against her will by itself wasn't grounds for discrimination, the written memos are. Basically what you have here is something written officially by the hospital's management, making it an official policy of the hospital that no black nurses can care for this retard's baby. Whether originally facilitated by the patient's husband or not, the higher ups essentially codified it into written policy when they put that note on the baby's medical chart. So if she can prove it, the hospital is fuged.

whoa wait a minute does this mean that when a racist asks you to do a racist thing and then you do it, you are in fact doing a racist thing? nope not buying it

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