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Let's talk about atheism (WALL OF TEXT IN OP DON'T SAY I DIDN'T WARN YOU)


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#16 MadHatter

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 03:50 PM

I look at it this way:

I would rather believe there is a God and live my life as such....and be wrong about it.

Rather than not believe there is a Hod and live my life as such....and be wrong.

First case....maybe I missed out on some pleasure and fun while floating around in this rock.

Second case....eternal damnation.

Just a thought.

#17 Bronn

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 03:52 PM

i don't see how that's a stumbling block... it seems that, If anything it give more credence to the idea that we invented god.


I completely agree that the concept of god to humans is a totally manufactured/recycled concept... God was born out of our very incessant need to explain things. Interestingly enough, this is the same need that drives a lot of science out there. The difference is that science keeps looking, while the other side is content to throw up their hands and give up and call it faith.

I guess what I was saying is that there are some questions that just can't be answered, at least with our current understanding of things, with factual information. We can theorize all day long, but there are a lot of things that we don't know and we assume based on our current collective knowledge.

#18 PhillyB

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 03:54 PM

I look at it this way:

I would rather believe there is a God and live my life as such....and be wrong about it.

Rather than not believe there is a Hod and live my life as such....and be wrong.

First case....maybe I missed out on some pleasure and fun while floating around in this rock.

Second case....eternal damnation.

Just a thought.


there's transcendental merit to certain aspects of the argument i think, but pascals wager has been long debunked as fallacious (and i'm actually an enormous fan of pascalian epistemology and existential philosophy.)

#19 Bronn

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 03:56 PM

I look at it this way:

I would rather believe there is a God and live my life as such....and be wrong about it.

Rather than not believe there is a Hod and live my life as such....and be wrong.

First case....maybe I missed out on some pleasure and fun while floating around in this rock.

Second case....eternal damnation.

Just a thought.


But, you're letting a fear based reaction directly affect the way you live.

It shouldn't take fear to make people behave as they ought to behave.

#20 Bronn

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 04:00 PM

Let me put it this way...

If your intent was to do bad things if there weren't an omnipotent being or an eternal damnation, do you not also believe that said omnipotent being would already know your intentions regardless and your facade of being a good person would be seen through?

If so, why even allow you to exist? To fulfill some omnipotent being's pop quiz on human decision making?

LOL

#21 stirs

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 04:06 PM

Christians do not live under a sherrif who is waiting to back hand us when we cross some line. Our intent is of chief importance.

#22 Bronn

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 04:15 PM

No... Christians live under ideals and stories that existed long before Christianity that they plagiarized/modified to control the masses of people who would subscribe to them...

#23 PhillyB

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 04:28 PM

No... Christians live under ideals and stories that existed long before Christianity that they plagiarized/modified to control the masses of people who would subscribe to them...


i'm not sure the narrative is that simple. i would agree that various political factions have throughout history managed to very successfully manipulate christians based on facets of their religion (e.g. the republican party platform and evangelical christianity.) i don't think the religion itself was developed with such a purpose and intent in mind (but i guess religion being the subjective term is what makes the discussion so nuanced.)

#24 mmmbeans

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 04:37 PM

i'm not sure the narrative is that simple. i would agree that various political factions have throughout history managed to very successfully manipulate christians based on facets of their religion (e.g. the republican party platform and evangelical christianity.) i don't think the religion itself was developed with such a purpose and intent in mind (but i guess religion being the subjective term is what makes the discussion so nuanced.)



perhaps not, but it's certainly arguable that Constantine brought it to prominence with that intent.

#25 thefuzz

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 04:37 PM

Honestly, I would love to live a simpler life and believe in God and Jesus and Abraham, but I struggle with it.

Wish I could let blind faith take over...hasn't happened, but I would be fine if it did.

#26 MadHatter

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 04:40 PM

But, you're letting a fear based reaction directly affect the way you live.

It shouldn't take fear to make people behave as they ought to behave.


I was being facetious.

I believe that you should live a good life and treat people fairly just because it is the right thing to do.

But, if I had to be wrong .....I would rather ere on the side if no eternal damnation.

#27 Kral

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 05:33 PM

i'm not sure the narrative is that simple. i would agree that various political factions have throughout history managed to very successfully manipulate christians based on facets of their religion (e.g. the republican party platform and evangelical christianity.) i don't think the religion itself was developed with such a purpose and intent in mind (but i guess religion being the subjective term is what makes the discussion so nuanced.)


I contend that organized religion as opposed to spirituality was from the start intended as a means of social control. If it weren't religion would have stopped at animism.

#28 Kral

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 05:34 PM

I was being facetious.

I believe that you should live a good life and treat people fairly just because it is the right thing to do.

But, if I had to be wrong .....I would rather ere on the side if no eternal damnation.


Except it turns out that some dead religion was the actual truthful one so you went ahead and picked eternal damnation.

#29 PhillyB

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 06:15 PM

I contend that organized religion as opposed to spirituality was from the start intended as a means of social control. If it weren't religion would have stopped at animism.


i would argue that it's entirely dependent on how you define religion... not an easy task by any stretch. there are those who would argue animism is itself a form of religion in that it fits into broad categories defined by the term.

i would also suggest that a survey of world religions show, at their origins (perhaps not the major monotheistic ones, we'll leave those out) a symbiosis between social structure and religion where the two are inextricable and the one affects the other. this could naturally lead to coercion and control, but in this case the correlation does not necessarily imply causation.

but i am no expert and if you have cases to show otherwise i'd love to see them.

#30 AR-15 Panther

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 11:09 PM

Agnostic, we really don't know as much as we think we do..


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