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WR's drafted by the Panthers since 2002 - the case to draft a WR in round 1?


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#46 Salvo

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 06:30 PM

Don't care for a WR at 14. OL/DL talent falls off quicker than WR in this draft.

I have nothing against picking a WR from 2nd and beyond, though. Of course...that goes against the epitome of this thread. But still...we have a different draft philosopher in the drivers seat this year. Lets see what he can do deep in the draft while solidifying our holes with top of the line talent.

#47 koolkatluke

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 07:53 PM

holmes had 942 and 8 TDs his second year.
jennings had 920 yards and 12 TDs his second year.
burress had 1008 yards and 6 TDs his 2nd year.

i'm not talking about their best year, but i am talking about the imact they had. i don't know what kind of crazy standards you're using, but i'd consider that an impact.

and i'd hardly consider gronk and graham TEs. sure, that's their position but their primary function in the offense is as a receiver.

btw.....i have never said patterson is a "can't miss" prospect. i have said repeatedly he's a "swing for the fences" prospect. i don't consider really any but a very small handful of any draft to be "can't miss" prospects.



Jennings became the number 1 wr his 3rd year. When he got the most targets on his team 139 caught 80 balls for 1,200 yards and 9 TD. He reach his full potential his 3rd year. His 2nd year he had 30 less rec. and 50 less targets. He wasn't facing the other teams best CB nor was his TEam main target. Driver was but that change his third season. I'll break down the rest of your crap later.

#48 TheRumGone

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 08:17 PM

Jennings became the number 1 wr his 3rd year. When he got the most targets on his team 139 caught 80 balls for 1,200 yards and 9 TD. He reach his full potential his 3rd year. His 2nd year he had 30 less rec. and 50 less targets. He wasn't facing the other teams best CB nor was his TEam main target. Driver was but that change his third season. I'll break down the rest of your crap later.

You are splitting hairs so bad i am about to go bald.

#49 rayzor

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 08:25 PM

Jennings became the number 1 wr his 3rd year. When he got the most targets on his team 139 caught 80 balls for 1,200 yards and 9 TD. He reach his full potential his 3rd year. His 2nd year he had 30 less rec. and 50 less targets. He wasn't facing the other teams best CB nor was his TEam main target. Driver was but that change his third season. I'll break down the rest of your crap later.

lol crap.

i'm not talking about full potential. i'm talking about ability to make an impact. what player from any position reaches their full potential in the first couple years of playing? i doubt that aj green and julio jones reached their full potential yet. did randy moss reach his his rookie year?

you don't have to wait years to tell if you'll be anything more than an average WR, which is all we have aside from smitty...and that's being generous.

for many you can tell quickly what they are likely to become.

now i'm sure you're going to find one little stat that you'll spin "masterfully" to back up your "fact" that it takes 3 years or whatever but the honest and real truth is many times it doesn't take long for players to make an impact. some it does...yes. some players take a few years for them to "get it" but that doesn't mean that they don't/can't/won't produce quite a bit because quite often they do.

#50 panther4life

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 08:37 PM

Jennings became the number 1 wr his 3rd year. When he got the most targets on his team 139 caught 80 balls for 1,200 yards and 9 TD. He reach his full potential his 3rd year. His 2nd year he had 30 less rec. and 50 less targets. He wasn't facing the other teams best CB nor was his TEam main target. Driver was but that change his third season. I'll break down the rest of your crap later.


Jennings had 12 TD's his 2nd year.Lafell has had 7 total over 3 years and he had has the 2nd most targets to Smith since his rookie year.

So I am not sure if you are trying to argue he's gonna breakout and eliminate the need for a receiver or if you just think a different non 1st round receiver should be drafted and groomed for 3 years or what.

#51 panther4life

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 08:50 PM

Just like to add this info as well. Teams picking inside the top 13 generally have plenty of needs and can go a number of different routes. I put together this info in another totally unrelated thread to get an idea of who might be available when we pick.

Number of players taken inside the top 13 of NFL draft since 01 by position.

QB's 24 or 2 per draft
DT'S 23 OR 1.91 per draft
WR 21 or 1.175 per draft
OT 20 or 1.66 per draft
DE 17 or 1.41 per draft
LB 15 or 1.25 per draft
CB 13 OR 1.08 per draft
RB 13 or 1.08 per draft
S 7 OR .583 per draft
TE 2 or .166 per draft
G 1 or 0.08 per draft

So if WR is such a risky pick in general terms of selecting early then why is 3rd on the list when its obvious teams picking inside the top 13 need immediate help?

#52 rayzor

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 09:02 PM

Just like to add this info as well. Teams picking inside the top 13 generally have plenty of needs and can go a number of different routes. I put together this info in another totally unrelated thread to get an idea of who might be available when we pick.

Number of players taken inside the top 13 of NFL draft since 01 by position.

QB's 24 or 2 per draft
DT'S 23 OR 1.91 per draft
WR 21 or 1.175 per draft
OT 20 or 1.66 per draft
DE 17 or 1.41 per draft
LB 15 or 1.25 per draft
CB 13 OR 1.08 per draft
RB 13 or 1.08 per draft
S 7 OR .583 per draft
TE 2 or .166 per draft
G 1 or 0.08 per draft

So if WR is such a risky pick in general terms of selecting early then why is 3rd on the list when its obvious teams picking inside the top 13 need immediate help?

pretty interesting.

I'd love to see the success/failure rates beside each.

#53 Lumps

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 09:20 PM

This is nothing more than a case to fire Hurney. Which I have been saying for years. Which we finally did. Hurney SUCKED at WRs.

You guys have been tainted by having a GM who can't do poo...we don't need a first to get a good reciever. Look at these picks, two seconds and two thirds and two fourths both in the top 15? Also keep in mind one second was a top 15 second rounder and the 3rds were high as well. Any competent GM could get a #2 reciever with all these picks. We got maybe LaFell is what... a solid #3? Gettis we wil just mark a ?.

I'd almost bet one of the first 3 receivers Gettlemen picks below round 1 will be at least a solid #2. The accumulating failures of WRs chosen by Hurney is a better argument for chosing a WR with the most talent (in the first) and now WR is a desperate need, than because the previous WRs under round 1 have failed. I'd much rather see oline in the first. Cam thrives when given time to scramble around to make a play.

#54 koolkatluke

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 09:46 PM

lol crap.

i'm not talking about full potential. i'm talking about ability to make an impact. what player from any position reaches their full potential in the first couple years of playing? i doubt that aj green and julio jones reached their full potential yet. did randy moss reach his his rookie year?

you don't have to wait years to tell if you'll be anything more than an average WR, which is all we have aside from smitty...and that's being generous.

for many you can tell quickly what they are likely to become.

now i'm sure you're going to find one little stat that you'll spin "masterfully" to back up your "fact" that it takes 3 years or whatever but the honest and real truth is many times it doesn't take long for players to make an impact. some it does...yes. some players take a few years for them to "get it" but that doesn't mean that they don't/can't/won't produce quite a bit because quite often they do.


Then you're changing the argument. Smitty made a "impact" his 1st year. I thought we were talking about reaching what you drafted him for. Jennings was drafted to be a number 1 wr he didn't get there until his third year. I'm pretty sure Moss was the number 1 wr his 1st year in Minny. If we're going go by just making a impact then of course WR can do that in their 2nd year. Has Lafell not made a impact then?

#55 koolkatluke

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 09:53 PM

Jennings had 12 TD's his 2nd year.Lafell has had 7 total over 3 years and he had has the 2nd most targets to Smith since his rookie year.

So I am not sure if you are trying to argue he's gonna breakout and eliminate the need for a receiver or if you just think a different non 1st round receiver should be drafted and groomed for 3 years or what.



You might want to take into account they we don't run the same offense as Greenbay. Since you do a lot of research. Look up the numbers to all the Number 2 WR in a read option or pistol offense and tell me who is putting up West Coast WR numbers?
Then add in the fact that Lafell wasn't the 2nd WR most of last year Legadon't was.

#56 koolkatluke

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 10:09 PM

Again I only made the argument about WR not reaching full potential to their 3rd year to explain why we can't make a judgement on some of the WR's on the roster. Not to take away some peoples dream of drafting a WR.

#57 rayzor

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 10:28 PM

Then you're changing the argument. Smitty made a "impact" his 1st year. I thought we were talking about reaching what you drafted him for. Jennings was drafted to be a number 1 wr he didn't their until his third year. I'm pretty sure Moss was the number 1 wr his 1st year in Minny. If we're going go by just making a impact then of course WR can do that in their 2nd year. Has Lafell not made a impact then?

no.I'm arguing the same thing i have been all along...that you dont have to wait 3 years for them to "develop" and that they can make an impact quickly being and I'm talking a significant impact....and no. lafell has not made that much of an impact. he has been painfully average and that is being generous. he hasn't been what i would consider a solid producer. he's been moose lite and i don't think that there's much more to him or lafell or gettis or murphy. adams is the only one that has peaked my interest at all and i don't have much faith in bim amounting to much either. aside from smith, there are no real playmakers in this WR corps and thats what we need.

we dont need to and shouldn't have to wait 3 or 4 years to see if someone can step up as needed, esp. if smitty goes down or retires. we should be addressing it now. fortunately we have a GM that is more interested in getting those TD scorers and comes from a background that doesn't piss around waiting to see if one of those guys on their WR corps can step up eventually given enough years in the system and realizes just how necessary it is to keep on trying to improve that core.

#58 koolkatluke

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 10:40 PM

no.I'm arguing the same thing i have been all along...that you dont have to wait 3 years for them to "develop" and that they can make an impact quickly being and I'm talking a significant impact....and no. lafell has not made that much of an impact. he has been painfully average and that is being generous. he hasn't been what i would consider a solid producer. he's been moose lite and i don't think that there's much more to him or lafell or gettis or murphy. adams is the only one that has peaked my interest at all and i don't have much faith in bim amounting to much either. aside from smith, there are no real playmakers in this WR corps and thats what we need.

we dont need to and shouldn't have to wait 3 or 4 years to see if someone can step up as needed, esp. if smitty goes down or retires. we should be addressing it now. fortunately we have a GM that is more interested in getting those TD scorers and comes from a background that doesn't piss around waiting to see if one of those guys on their WR corps can step up eventually given enough years in the system and realizes just how necessary it is to keep on trying to improve that core.


I'm going to play your game and use different position to make a point.

We did with CJ, Hardy, and James Anderson. And by your standards we would have thought DWill was just a scat back Looking at his 1st 2 years.

And you refuse to look at the Offense and not the player. I ask you again what #2 WR in a option Offense is putting up great numbers? If we would have started out running a more traditional Offense what would Lafell numbers and Impact be? Lets also not forget his down field blocking or is that not considered a impact trait?

#59 TheRumGone

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 11:18 PM

And you refuse to look at the Offense and not the player.


uh...what?? I think you meant you refuse to look at the offense as a whole but just the player? I understand what you mean about not being able to utilize Lafell as well because of the heavy read option formation. But personally I hope we go far away from that and just use it 3-5 times a game. I don't think Lafell is as bad as a lot of people make him out to be. But we have no #1 after Smitty. We are screwed if he goes down. We HAVE to draft somebody that can fill that. We have waited to long. Patterson can fill that void and he is the best available, but we could go down that crapshoot again with a billion different posts

#60 koolkatluke

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 11:24 PM

uh...what?? I think you meant you refuse to look at the offense as a whole but just the player? I understand what you mean about not being able to utilize Lafell as well because of the heavy read option formation. But personally I hope we go far away from that and just use it 3-5 times a game. I don't think Lafell is as bad as a lot of people make him out to be. But we have no #1 after Smitty. We are screwed if he goes down. We HAVE to draft somebody that can fill that. We have waited to long. Patterson can fill that void and he is the best available, but we could go down that crapshoot again with a billion different posts


Maybe in 2 or 3 years but not from day 1. There is no WR in this draft that can replace Smith day 1. If Smith gets hurt we're fuged regardless if we draft a WR in the 1st 2 rounds.


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