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I think Mike Florio is right about everything he says here.


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[quote name='iampantherman' timestamp='1361455573' post='2140330']
Personally I've never understood our fixation on RBs, especially the ridiculous contracts. I've always assumed it was common knowledge that you first build a great line and then you can take an average/good back and make him look truly special. But what do we dumb fans know? I guess we should always defer to the geniuses running things(according to the way many of the huddlers talk)- they must know more than we do right?
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It goes back to being depleted at the running back position in 2004 and 2005 and the erroneous sentiment that it's the only reason we weren't successful those years led us to embark on a frivolous endeavor to have 18 starting caliber running backs so we'd never have to go through that again

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Florio did not say he believed we could cut Stew this year because of the cap impact but what he said was that we paid too much for both rb's and we need to right size their contracts or get rid of them as soon as it makes sense.It makes sense cutting Dwill this year .

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[quote name='BlueBoy' timestamp='1361470207' post='2140505']
Matt Stafford has a ton of talent? Let me guess, throw the ball up to Calvin Johnson. I didn't know that was a skill. Oh, you mean a ton of talent around him? Ok. My bad!
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You are kinda making my point. If you dont win games people tend to forget who you are and a player can become lost in the shuffle. I mean the guy has thrown for 10000 yards and 60 TD's in the last two seasons with ONLY calvin johnson. I would say he's pretty good. IF he would have won 10 games each of the last two seasons you probably wouldn't be saying that.

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Damn. Normally I like what he has to say when he's on the Mac Attack.

This is disappointing. I heard someone say the other day how much it would hurt us to cut DWill.

I'd like to keep JStew and Tolbert but they kind of both are power backs and DWill can run like hell when he breaks free.

Still don't think we need 3 amazing RBs ...Would be nice to use one of them for a position where we actually need some depth

PS lol @ the comment under the article.....only you SouthCak

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[quote name='Mister Love' timestamp='1361474973' post='2140571']
No you don't want to restructure both because that's likely just going to compound problems long term. You keep one, which is most feasibly going to be Stewart at this point, and you let the other go.

How is everyone fine with cutting gamble loose but the minute someone mentions Williams being gone it's like omg who's going to replace our 700 yard rusher
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The reason that you restructure them is because you have to pay more of a cap hit if you release him then if you keep him. If you make it a June 1st hit you have 3.2 million this year in dead cap space and 6.4 million next year in dead cap space. That is 9.4 million you will waste for nothing. And the 6.4 million is in a year where the cap is worse next year than it is this year. Gamble, on the other hand, is in his last year of his contract and will be a free agent next year anyway. This year he counts 10.9 million against the cap of which 3 million is what we have to eat if we release him. So the net saving are 7.9 million with no dead cap space next year.

So you have one guy who ended up on IR last year with the defense being better when he left who gives you a 7.9 million in cap savings this year and no dead cap space going forward versus another guy who was an integral part of your rushing attack which costs you 1.4 million or 9.6 million total to let go this year or if you want to save roughly 5 million this year by making it a June 1st cut but then you pay 6.4 million in dead cap space next year when our cap is worse.

Anf you can't see why people would rather get rid of Gamble than Williams?? Seriously?????

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[quote name='Mister Love' timestamp='1361475168' post='2140575']
It goes back to being depleted at the running back position in 2004 and 2005 and the erroneous sentiment that it's the only reason we weren't successful those years led us to embark on a frivolous endeavor to have 18 starting caliber running backs so we'd never have to go through that again
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No it didn't at all. Picking up Stewart was a reaction to wondering if Williams was going to be a feature back after struggling to pick up pass blocking and being too tentative between the tackles in 2007. Signing Williams to a big contract was in reaction to having to overpay everyone in 2011 after Richardson gutted the team, we went 2-14, and we had to pay people to want to play here. Couple that with concerns that the running game would have to help Cam who everyone said would struggle. Stewart's big contract made little sense given how they were used although I am sure that Hurney's motivation was how dominant they were in 2008.
I don't think 2004 and 2005 had anything to do with it.

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[quote name='panthers55' timestamp='1361549070' post='2141334']
The reason that you restructure them is because you have to pay more of a cap hit if you release him then if you keep him. If you make it a June 1st hit you have 3.2 million this year in dead cap space and 6.4 million next year in dead cap space. That is 9.4 million you will waste for nothing. And the 6.4 million is in a year where the cap is worse next year than it is this year. Gamble, on the other hand, is in his last year of his contract and will be a free agent next year anyway. This year he counts 10.9 million against the cap of which 3 million is what we have to eat if we release him. So the net saving are 7.9 million with no dead cap space next year.

So you have one guy who ended up on IR last year with the defense being better when he left who gives you a 7.9 million in cap savings this year and no dead cap space going forward versus another guy who was an integral part of your rushing attack which costs you 1.4 million or 9.6 million total to let go this year or if you want to save roughly 5 million this year by making it a June 1st cut but then you pay 6.4 million in dead cap space next year when our cap is worse.

Anf you can't see why people would rather get rid of Gamble than Williams?? Seriously?????
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Gamble has been one of the best cover corners in the entire league in the last two years, doesn't play a position where you decline rapidly around 30, and yea he ended up on IR this last year but DeAngelo Williams finished two consecutive seasons in a row on IR and the panthers' brass followed that up with signing him to a ridiculous contract they had no business giving out. The only reason it makes more sense to cut Gamble is because he's much further down the life of the contract extension he got, which is a shame because a good CB is a higher priority in this league than a good RB.

And a huge part of the reason the defense still performed well without him was because the defensive line was bringing the heat throughout the year. In 2011 when Gamble basically had CJ as the only guy on the line that could pursue a QB he still performed ridiculously well.

This is exactly the kind of crap I knew we'd get ourselves into. Without Williams' extension we wouldn't even be having this conversation. The Panthers would probably give an extend/restructure to Gamble (and they'd have leverage since he ended up on IR last year and the Panthers' defense didn't collapse) that would open up cap space, but we need all that money

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[quote name='Mister Love' timestamp='1361595494' post='2142008']
Gamble has been one of the best cover corners in the entire league in the last two years, doesn't play a position where you decline rapidly around 30, and yea he ended up on IR this last year but DeAngelo Williams finished two consecutive seasons in a row on IR and the panthers' brass followed that up with signing him to a ridiculous contract they had no business giving out. The only reason it makes more sense to cut Gamble is because he's much further down the life of the contract extension he got, which is a shame because a good CB is a higher priority in this league than a good RB.

And a huge part of the reason the defense still performed well without him was because the defensive line was bringing the heat throughout the year. In 2011 when Gamble basically had CJ as the only guy on the line that could pursue a QB he still performed ridiculously well.

This is exactly the kind of crap I knew we'd get ourselves into. Without Williams' extension we wouldn't even be having this conversation. The Panthers would probably give an extend/restructure to Gamble (and they'd have leverage since he ended up on IR last year and the Panthers' defense didn't collapse) that would open up cap space, but we need all that money
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First of all no one wants to see Gamble gone. If we could keep everyone I am sure we would. The issue is that fans like you keep making the same arguments without dealing with the realities of the present.. This isn't a debate about what we should have done in 2011 in hindsight. This isn't about whether Williams contract was a good idea then or now given how we have used him. Those debates are largely over. We know the Williams contract wasn't a good one particularly given how things have turned out.

This conversation isn't about whether Gamble is a good player or nor or whether we would like to keep him. it is about whether give the realities of the current cap situation and the state of the current contracts as they exist, it is better to cut Williams or Gamble in order to get below the cap and give us some space to sign free agents.
I believe that given how we finished up last year on defense and how we actually improved once Gamble and Norman were no longer in the game, that Gamble's price tag doesn't warrant a 11 million cap hit this year and he is one of the easiest contracts to unload.

Your coulda shoulda argument about Williams is really useless at this point. It is too late to put that horse back in the barn, now we have to figure out what to do from here not keep blaming Hurney who is no longer here for everything.

If Williams contract was up this year and we could save 8 million by letting him go without having a ton of dead cap space next year, I would be the first to advocate cutting him as well.

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As for the issue of whether Gamble has been one of the best cover corners in the league over the past 2 years, I think you have to ask whether that has been in zone or man. Perhaps someone has the facts to elucidate this discussion but my biased subjective observation suggests that he is a good zone corner but he is not great in man coverage because he plays off the receiver too much. What I saw later in the year with Thomas for example was closer man coverage and jamming receivers off the line which made it harder for quarterbacks to hit the hot reads and dump the ball off so easily like they did earlier in the year. So there was more time for the rush to actually get there.

Is Gamble good in man coverage or zone?? Does he fit our current defense or the one that Fox ran? Does his 11 million dollar cap space justify what he can do going forward? All questions I am wondering about..........................

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I am interested in what Shula will do with both. From what I remember, He had a great backfield with W. Dunn and Mike Alscott. Throw in what Cam does. I realize the money committed but From what I understand that we don't gain anything Cap Wise by cutting either DeAngelo or Stewart.

I also have read that we are keeping D Will. Both Stewart and D'Will are special backs. Chudz didn't use either of them very well. I would love to see us get back to a more balanced attack.

Many of you agree to get rid of one or both. I hope we keep both since there isn't really much of a savings if we cut Either Running back.

I would love to see us somehow keep Gamble but I think that is pretty much impossible.

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