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let's have a calm, rational discussion about scholarships for minorities

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Posted · Report post

"heh calm rational discussion? in this forum? HEH GOOD LUCK WITH THAT

now let me set up this false dichotomy and try not to vomit out thinly veiled racist poo this time"

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Posted · Report post

I think it could be considered a form of institutionalized racism. Against minorities. By elevating minorities you are unintentionally keeping them down.

that's what's honestly befuddling about the issue at its core to me. when you look at it, strictly speaking, it IS a form of institutionalized racism. in that sense, those opposing scholarships for minorities have a point. to me the question isn't whether or not those scholarships are inherently fair synchronically - that is, viewing them at a single point in time - but rather diachronically, over a broader context. when one views it as the former, yeah, it's racism. when one views it as the latter, it becomes more a matter, as GS quoted, of making sure marginalized groups have equal shots at success and representation.

i guess what annoys me about this is that there are a billion and a half social injustices happening nationally and abroad, and while this might be a technical injustice to your white priviledged self, if you really want to see change and justice globally you have your choice of issues to focus on and make a difference with... why focus on one that gives some poor native american kid born into umpteen generations of abject poverty a shot at getting a college education that he'd never otherwise dream of landing? it strikes me as unbelievably petty and self-serving, which is especially poisonous because it's done under the guise of good citizenship, desiring equality and destroying perceived evils. some of the worst evils are committed with otherwise good intentions (as is the case here i think.)

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Posted · Report post

i also think it's really interesting that conservatives line up to lampoon liberals for not realizing that life isn't fair and you can't be all egalitarian and poo and that life is just exclusionary by nature, but in this case exclusivity is the world's greatest evil that must be eradicated at all cost.

i guess what i ultimately can't understand is why america has been unfair to minorities for centuries under the backing of white conservative oligarchy and the moment the legal basis for that oppression is lifted it's this warp speed migration to the other end of the spectrum and "whoa whoa whoaaaa can't be unfair here and if we help you minorities more than other people that's unfair and that's just wrong."

also mike adams is a total weiner.

that's all i got

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Posted · Report post

So the question is. Is this really about making things fair and creating equal access or righting generational wrongs with similar institutional methodology?

Two wrongs don't make a right.

I do think it can be tweaked to improve the success rate. Too much status quo when it comes to race or God forbid a whiter person is the one starting a conversation about it.

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Posted · Report post

Distribute scholarships based on population percentages.

If half the population is white, then half go there, 8% Asian? then 8% go there. And on down the line.

This might not be perfect, but would give a representative number in each ethnicity the same shot at a scholarship.

Probably not the best way overall to do it, but could can some of the finger pointing.

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The ultimate goal should be to eliminate all racially based preferences for a merit based system of selection. Unfortunately, if the last four years are any indication, we still have several generations to go before a merit based system will be a viable alternative.

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The ultimate goal should be to eliminate all racially based preferences for a merit based system of selection. Unfortunately, if the last four years are any indication, we still have several generations to go before a merit based system will be a viable alternative.

how would a merit based system work? I ask because there are many versions

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It's all a question of opportunity. Most agree that it would be great if everyone had the same opportunity at birth and then all success or failure would be directly related to ability and hard work. Because of the increasing chasm between rich and poor, opportunity is shrinking every year for the poor.

So what is the right way to level the field a little? As a libertarian I am required to say that the welfare system is broken but I am not sure what the viable alternative is.

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Posted · Report post

Why do you think conservatives are suddenly all about fairness?

I'll default to good ol' Occam's Razor on that one.

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Posted · Report post

how would a merit based system work? I ask because there are many versions

The devil is in the details! As you say there are numerous ways to approach the issue. I would definitely leave the development of a merit based selection system to trained professionals not partisan political hacks (like myself). However, I would expect that it would not be radically different from ones most of us are familiar with. A mixture of academic testing and a resume submitted to a board for review. The amount of weight given to each area would be critical to the selection process and would likely vary with the degree being pursued. As a minimum, I would require numeric designators for each candidate to eliminate any potential for discrimination. Information such as name, age, gender ethnic and racial background would be redacted from any documentation reviewed by the selection committee. The committee would also need to be independent, anonymous and cloistered to the maximum extent possible during the review process to prevent tampering. The committee would not communicate as a group or even know who the other members of the board were, at least not initially. If they met as a group, it would only be during the final stages of the selection process, after the majority of candidates had been eliminated, and only if needed to hash out any extremely close final candidate selections. Committee members could be selected from a diverse cross section of esteemed alumni. Minimum of 5 committee members, highest and lowest score would be discarded for each candidate. Head of board would receive all board member inputs. They would forward results to Chancellor's office for final verification and approval. I am sure there is much more to be considered, but this would be a starting point.

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Posted · Report post

"heh calm rational discussion? in this forum? HEH GOOD LUCK WITH THAT

now let me set up this false dichotomy and try not to vomit out thinly veiled racist poo this time"

If you can't post in this discussion without acting like a fuging fool then stop posting in it.

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Posted · Report post

Depends on who/what is issuing the scholarships.

Private group? They can do anything they want. Some sort of public scholarships? Don't discriminate. As far as the disproportionate issuance of scholarships (and I know that's not what the OP is about but someone brought this up) go, if race isn't a contributing factor and it is solely based on scholastic achievement....maybe that's a factor into why minorities receive so much less? What do academic accomplishment numbers look like contrasted to scholarship qualifying.

I said at the beginning private groups can do what they want, but I loathe anyone/any group that uses race as some qualifier to someone getting a scholarship or not. Our church gives out scholarships, and if one if our minority members qualified...I'd be estatic upon their receiving of it BASED on their scholastic achievements. Not because he/she is hispanic or black.

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