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According to Person we're keeping Williams...


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#106 teeray

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 06:17 PM

Duly noted..

True as that may be Teeray, it's Joe Freaking Person we're talking about here. He's behind on a lot of things and never breaks out news about the team. Heck other beat writers from other teams have broken stories about the Panthers more often than Joe has ever done.

Heck we have some huddlers with better connections or inside sources than Person.


Touche.

That is why I didn't put up much of a fight over the info. Just noting that he wasn't extrapolating from a quote by Gettleman in a press conference.

#107 jarhead

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 06:28 PM

Cutting him now serves no purpose.....cutting him after June 1 saves us some money but we lose his services.I think Gettlemen knows when the time will be right but for now until march 12th DWILL will stay.

#108 Marguide

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 06:39 PM

B creates 4.6 million dead money in 14, thats 800k more than we are saving in 13. So have the cap room now and fug ourselves in the future is what you wanna do.

Pay him 9.6 million over the next 2 years(4.8 million per year in 13 and 14) to never play another down for us

If we are going the June 1st route to save money then its a million times better to do it next year.


The option I prefer
If we cut him in 14 we save 6 million in 14 and 7 million in 15. Thats 21 million in savings . 11.5 million per year savings in 2 years


The option you prefer
If we cut him now we save 3.8 million in 13 and 4.6 million in 14 and 10.2 million in 15 thats 18.6 million savings over 3 years. 6.2 million per year savings over 3 years

tl; dr save 21 million in cap hits thru 15 and get to keep him for 13. or save 18.6 million in cap hits through 2015 and he never plays another down.


These numbers are not correct.

Cut him post June 1 this year and we save 5.0 this year, 2.8 next year, and 10.2 in year 3, for a total of 18 million, or an average of 6 a year.

Cut him pre June 1 next year and we save 0 this year, his cap hit in year 2 is 400,000 higher than currently scheduled, and 10.2 in year 3, for a total savings of 9.8 million, or an average of 3.3 million a year.

Cut him post June 1 next year and we save 0 this year, 6 million next year and 7 million in year 3, for a total of 13.0 million, or an average of 4.3 million a year.

The worst option is the one you are advocating. Either cut him post June 1 this year or cut him post June 1 next year. The greatest cap savings are to cut him post June 1 this year.

#109 TheRumGone

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 07:16 PM

These numbers are not correct.

Cut him post June 1 this year and we save 5.0 this year, 2.8 next year, and 10.2 in year 3, for a total of 18 million, or an average of 6 a year.

Cut him pre June 1 next year and we save 0 this year, his cap hit in year 2 is 400,000 higher than currently scheduled, and 10.2 in year 3, for a total savings of 9.8 million, or an average of 3.3 million a year.

Cut him post June 1 next year and we save 0 this year, 6 million next year and 7 million in year 3, for a total of 13.0 million, or an average of 4.3 million a year.

The worst option is the one you are advocating. Either cut him post June 1 this year or cut him post June 1 next year. The greatest cap savings are to cut him post June 1 this year.


Thanks for the info. How do you get these figures? It seems like people have like 3 or 4 different views on the cap and I never know which one is right.

#110 Guest_BlueBoy_*

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 07:21 PM

int main(0)
{

while(doesn't have WRs)
{
To give carries to all RBs:

1st down: Stewart rush up the middle for 2 yards.
2nd down: Williams toward the sideline for a 3 yard skimper.
3rd down: Cam on a play action pass. Sorry your running game not respected, no receiver open. Incomplete pass
4th down: punt
}
team start 0-7.
Blame it all on a Cam junior slump.

return (we need a 'traditional' passer for carolina);
}

The program has been written folks. Only a good draft can hack it.

#111 panthers55

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 07:36 PM

These numbers are not correct.

Cut him post June 1 this year and we save 5.0 this year, 2.8 next year, and 10.2 in year 3, for a total of 18 million, or an average of 6 a year.

Cut him pre June 1 next year and we save 0 this year, his cap hit in year 2 is 400,000 higher than currently scheduled, and 10.2 in year 3, for a total savings of 9.8 million, or an average of 3.3 million a year.

Cut him post June 1 next year and we save 0 this year, 6 million next year and 7 million in year 3, for a total of 13.0 million, or an average of 4.3 million a year.

The worst option is the one you are advocating. Either cut him post June 1 this year or cut him post June 1 next year. The greatest cap savings are to cut him post June 1 this year.


It is hard to say you are saving money when you are creating almost 10 million in dead cap space over the next 2 seasons. You aren't saving anything, you are reducing the cap number at the expense of not having your starting running back and franchise career leader. Obviously the best scenario is to restructure him so that we can afford to keep him and still save the needed cap room. I don't know all the ins and outs but I imagine that something can be worked out that saves some cap room and still doesn't put us in cap hell down the road.

#112 panther4life

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 07:50 PM

These numbers are not correct.

Cut him post June 1 this year and we save 5.0 this year, 2.8 next year, and 10.2 in year 3, for a total of 18 million, or an average of 6 a year.

Cut him pre June 1 next year and we save 0 this year, his cap hit in year 2 is 400,000 higher than currently scheduled, and 10.2 in year 3, for a total savings of 9.8 million, or an average of 3.3 million a year.

Cut him post June 1 next year and we save 0 this year, 6 million next year and 7 million in year 3, for a total of 13.0 million, or an average of 4.3 million a year.

The worst option is the one you are advocating. Either cut him post June 1 this year or cut him post June 1 next year. The greatest cap savings are to cut him post June 1 this year.

Upon going back and looking at it your right my math was a little fuzzy(guess I shouldnt be trying to calculate all this poo while at work)

#113 panther4life

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 07:53 PM

Thanks for the info. How do you get these figures? It seems like people have like 3 or 4 different views on the cap and I never know which one is right.


I have got the basic principles down but am still not 100% confident in everything I post. Here is a good link I found via a google search.

http://deljzc.blogsp...system-101.html

That being said I too would be interested in hearing where marguide gets his info and how he calculates the info as well.

#114 panther4life

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 08:03 PM

These numbers are not correct.

Cut him post June 1 this year and we save 5.0 this year, 2.8 next year, and 10.2 in year 3, for a total of 18 million, or an average of 6 a year.


I think we are on the same page now. I finally found clarification on whether the cap hit has to be spread evenly over 2 years when done as post June 1st cut and it turns out it just has to come off and not necessarily be a 50/50 split.

So in this scenario you are describing here for instance you are saying eat 3.2 million of the dead money from cutting him this year and then eat 6.4 in dead money in 2014 right?

#115 CRA

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 08:23 PM

Yes they do. They franchised tagged Brandon Jacobs and gave him a new contract when they already had Bradshaw. They also gave Bradshaw a new contract and drafted Wilson. They are both not on the team now because of cap and injury issues But the point is they gave them new contracts for production just like we did and drafted another guy.


They didn't invest the same at RB. They didn't spent 2 first rounders in 3 yrs on RBs.

Bradshaw for example....7th rounder. He produced so his big deal was 4yr, 18 mill. They told him to kick rocks when his "big deal" was being discussed and that they wouldn't talk comical numbers like Williams got (5yr, 43 mill).

They haven't over invested like us

#116 Marguide

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 08:33 PM

I have got the basic principles down but am still not 100% confident in everything I post. Here is a good link I found via a google search.

http://deljzc.blogsp...system-101.html

That being said I too would be interested in hearing where marguide gets his info and how he calculates the info as well.


Actually, I made a math error too on the cut in 2014 scenario. That said, here's the easy way to think about it...

If we do nothing and let DWill play out his contract, he costs us 27.6 million in cap space over the next 3 years. Cut him this year, and he costs us 9.6 million over those 3 years, for a savings of 18 million. If he plays this year and gets cut next year, he costs us 8.2 this year and 6.4 over the final two years, for a total of 14.6 or a savings of 13 million over the 3 years.

The actual math is as follows:

2013 post June 1 cut gives a cap charge of 3.2 million this year, and 6.4 million in dead money for 2014, at which time he's off our books. All of this is for unallocated bonus charges. So instead of scheduled charges of 8.2, 9.2, and 10.2 in 2013 thu 2015, his total charge is just 9.6. saving 18.

2014 pre June 1 cut gives us a charge this year of 8.2 as scheduled plus 6.4 million next year (unallocated signing bonus) and obviously nothing in 2015. Total savings from what is currently scheduled is 13 million. Actual savings against the cap by year would be $0 in 2013, $2.8 million in 2014, and $10.2 in 2015.

2014 post June 1 gives us a charge of 8.2 this year, 3.2 next year (unallocated bonus) and the final 3.2 in unallocated bonus in 2015. Actual savings per year would be $0 this year, $6 million in 2014, and $7 million in 2015.

Clear as mud, right?

As a fan, I would not be at all upset if we decide to keep DWill this year as I think he is still our best back despite what many think. I actually hate Stew's contract more than DWill's as we heavily backloaded Stew's making it very tough to do anything with him. Unless we can find a desperate team that will take on upcoming guaranteed money in Stew's deal, we are stuck with him for awhile. At least with DWill's, we have some options in how we handle it.

#117 panther4life

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 08:38 PM

Actually, I made a math error too on the cut in 2014 scenario. That said, here's the easy way to think about it...

If we do nothing and let DWill play out his contract, he costs us 27.6 million in cap space over the next 3 years. Cut him this year, and he costs us 9.6 million over those 3 years, for a savings of 18 million. If he plays this year and gets cut next year, he costs us 8.2 this year and 6.4 over the final two years, for a total of 14.6 or a savings of 13 million over the 3 years.

The actual math is as follows:

2013 post June 1 cut gives a cap charge of 3.2 million this year, and 6.4 million in dead money for 2014, at which time he's off our books. All of this is for unallocated bonus charges. So instead of scheduled charges of 8.2, 9.2, and 10.2 in 2013 thu 2015, his total charge is just 9.6. saving 18.

2014 pre June 1 cut gives us a charge this year of 8.2 as scheduled plus 6.4 million next year (unallocated signing bonus) and obviously nothing in 2015. Total savings from what is currently scheduled is 13 million. Actual savings against the cap by year would be $0 in 2013, $2.8 million in 2014, and $10.2 in 2015.

2014 post June 1 gives us a charge of 8.2 this year, 3.2 next year (unallocated bonus) and the final 3.2 in unallocated bonus in 2015. Actual savings per year would be $0 this year, $6 million in 2014, and $7 million in 2015.

Clear as mud, right?


I actually get it now. The link i gave to the rum guy(very good new poster btw) helped clear everything up for me.

#118 CCS

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 08:39 PM

They need to get rid of one of the backs. I don't care what anyone says, having 3 starter quality running backs + a running QB is a waste of money.

#119 KJ89

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 09:19 PM

Excellent. So long as it works

#120 MHS831

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Posted 23 February 2013 - 09:32 PM

Him or the offensive line?


The OL with an undrafted player at RT, a journeyman at RG, and a rookie at LG so we can get under the cap?

Seriously, DW is good and it is not his fault Marty overpaid him. However, people are confusing him as a player and him as a cap buster.

Marty Hurney was an idiot and DW's contract was but one of his dumbest moves.

Yes, DWill was not good when the line was ineffective. So where should the money go?


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