123 replies to this topic

[Kurb]

if the number was generously reduced to one billion people, reflecting the most lax, liberal theological understanding of salvation requirements one could imagine, would that negate the point behind the post?

You should be studying.

[stirs]

If there was a God, would his existence depend on our approval?

[Bronn]

In response to the first post, those calculations are simply wrong. It's based on the wrong thinking. God judges us based on what we know. Yes it is true that according to what is taught in Scripture, Jesus is the Savior of the world. Yet who is Jesus? He is grace personified. We don't earn Jesus, we don't earn our salvation. Most think because people are born into another culture, when they die, they go to Hell because they didn't become believers while alive. In other words, they were born into the wrong culture, and the penalty is an eternity of seperation from God. Yet that is not what the Bible teaches at all. Saying we were born into the right culture, is saying we earned salvation from God. Yet if it's earned, then it's not grace.

So what I'm saying is, if a person never heard of Jesus, God takes that into account. If they were graceful to others, God will be graceful to them, and they can receive Jesus perhaps upon death. (I don't know exactly how this will work, but I imagine it was something like how all the old testament patrons died before Jesus arrived on the earth. They will have a chance to receive Jesus) There are no children in Hell, as children don't know anything, because remember God judges us based on what we know. Now once you know, you are going to be held accountable for that. With that said, not everyone has heard the true message of Jesus just yet, even people who have heard of this doctrine before haven't heard about who Jesus truly is.

cultmember.jpg

[Bronn]

I still have yet to hear an explanation on how modern religious folk can just disregard cultures that predate the ones that created their religions by thousands of years.

[PhillyB]

You should be studying.

i'm done for the moment thank god. after four hours of sleep two days ago i got off work at 2am last night and worked on my poo until 2pm and now i've just got to suffer through the shift before i can finally go crash. it paid off though, my work is being posted in the university's deparmental information display. mayan hieroglyphs and social structure ftw

[PhillyB]

If there was a God, would his existence depend on our approval?

of course not, but a challenge to theology =/= a challenge to the existence of god. those are two completely different planes

[Bronn]

Also wanted to add that, and I hope nobody's mentioned it yet, the modern Christian concept of Hell is basically just an invention by the church to use as just another method of personal control.

[stirs]

If there was a God and he decided some would go to hell, then is he no longer God?

[Bronn]

Why does god always have to be a he?

[stirs]

I think there are tons and tons of Christians who are so far off in their belief system. They surely get caught up in right and wrong according to their beliefs. They stress how you look, speak, how often you attend church, if you drink a beer, and on and on with the "test" for THEIR approval. They also will tell you how old the earth is, when the world will end, and even try to predict how many "true" beleivers there are. As far as Christianity, this is not time well spent. They are as Pstall said, closer to the Pharisees and zealots who killed Jesus. If, you try to follow their wrong thinking, you will have a field day, but not sure you will get any answers there.

[stirs]

Also wanted to add that, and I hope nobody's mentioned it yet, the modern Christian concept of Hell is basically just an invention by the church to use as just another method of personal control.

this has been said many times already, you come up with this, what doctrine does this follow? what evidence do you have to support it?

[Bronn]

Lots of cultures spoke of an underworld for the dead. Dante, among others, perpetuated the idea of it being a place of torment.

"Hell" is a poor translation of Hebrew words in the first place.

The only reference that even pops into my head at the moment that even resembles a modern concoction of a place of eternal torment is "lake of fire" in Revelation, which, like most of the NT, is a bunch of cherry-picked shock-value fiction...

[pstall]

What will help a person make more of an impact on the present time in which we live? Knowing how old the earth is or following Jesus?
No question cultures pre date christianity. Jesus of course wasn't called a christian. The term christian meant "little christs". The way the people lived was obvious to others, thus being called christians.
Nobody will know by looking at you, your knowledge of anything, but what you do and how you treat others. It will stand out.
No matter the # dead in the past means much for you or me or others in the future.
I'm sorry. Its been reduced to a cliche but its true. What would Jesus do?

[Carolina Husker]

So basically everyone gets to make up their own version of an infallible, omnipotent being to devote their entire life to.

[Matthias]

if the number was generously reduced to one billion people, reflecting the most lax, liberal theological understanding of salvation requirements one could imagine, would that negate the point behind the post?

What was the point in the first post? If one billion people are in Hell, it's because that is what they desired. Hell is seperation from God, it's the only place where you can truly be seperate from Him. If you don't want to have relationship with Him, that is where you would want to go.