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A little clarification on the DW situation, cut designations, and how it affects the cap


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#16 lymelizzard

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 10:10 AM

http://www.yardbarke...lliams/12977023

#17 DeAngelo's #1 Fan(CRA)

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 10:24 AM

Somebody correct if I am wrong but here is why we can't restructure Williams.

No matter what we have to take the cap hit of 9.6 million over the next 3 years even in the event of a restructure.

Remember, you cannot “refinance” how to amortize a signing bonus. You can’t continue to split it into smaller and smaller pieces over longer time frames. Even when you renegotiate a contract how a signing bonus was previously amortized remains on the salary cap books as originally planned.
http://deljzc.blogsp...system-101.html

He has already been paid that money so we then have to give him at least close to what he thinks he'll make on the open market in base salary in addition to that 9.6 over the next 3 years. Anywhere else he goes he can also likely get even more guaranteed money.


Williams won't get a big payday on the open market.....he is 30 with limited production in recent years.

That is why we should tell him to rip up his deal or be cut.

#18 panther4life

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 10:26 AM

Williams won't get a big payday on the open market.....he is 30 with limited production in recent years.

That is why we should tell him to rip up his deal or be cut.

Okay give me an example of restructuring him or ripping up his deal as you call it that will benefit us. Remember that 9.6 is still going to hit the cap in the event of a restructure(3.2 million per year of the next 3 years has to remain the same).

#19 DeAngelo's #1 Fan(CRA)

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 10:28 AM

Okay give me an example of restructuring him or ripping up his deal as you call it that will benefit us. Remember that 9.6 is going to hit in the event of a restructure(3.2 million per year of the next 3 years has to remain the same).


I don't think you can restructure him....too much guaranteed and too old

I think you ask him to rip his contract up completely if he wants to stay....otherwise tell him we cut him and take advantage of the cap room curtsying him June 1 creates.

#20 panther4life

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 10:30 AM

I don't think you can restructure him....too much guaranteed and too old

I think you ask him to rip his contract up completely if he wants to stay....otherwise tell him we cut him and take advantage of the cap room curtsying him June 1 creates.


You can't simply rip up his contract. The 9.6 hit is coming no matter what so thats not an option.

#21 DeAngelo's #1 Fan(CRA)

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 10:37 AM

You can't simply rip up his contract. The 9.6 hit is coming no matter what so thats not an option.


You can rip up his contract. Make him play for next to nothing and just take his guaranteed money already on the books.

That is best case scenario. If he won't? Tell him to move his family and go play somewhere else.

#22 panthers55

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 10:49 AM

You can't simply rip up his contract. The 9.6 hit is coming no matter what so thats not an option.


I don't claim to be an expert on what you can do and don't think others here are as well. So the failure of one of us to explain all the intricacies hardly indicates it can't be done. But let me take a shot in the dark. Lets say we convert 2 million of his salary this year into a signing bonus which you pay back in 2014 and 2015 at 1 million a piece. So for this year you lower the cap to 6.2 million for a 2 million savings. If you had cut him even a June 1st designation and had to keep 9.6 million on the books until then to still have 3.4 million in dead cap space. So the difference to keep him is 2.8 million. Going forward since you converted two million into guaranteed money, if you wanted to cut him in 2014 before June 1st, the total money in dead cap space would be 8.4 million which is still less than the 9.6 million if you cut him now. You move 2 million forward but you use up 3.4 million in the process for a net savings of 1.4 million. You got to use him for a year pretty cheaply and not really had to pay for it on the back end.

Now if I can think of this with no knowledge of the situation imagine what someone who actually knows what they are talking about could do understanding all the rules and exceptions.

#23 DeAngelo's #1 Fan(CRA)

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 10:51 AM

Yeah....and the fine print matters. Which we don't see or know.

You would like to think the way Hurney threw money around there would at least be some fine print in some of these deals that Carolina could use on their favor. Also some more complex angles to take we don't have the means to see.

It would be hard to believe we are in as bad of a spot as it appears to us, the casual observers.

#24 panthers55

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 11:05 AM

What about converting 3 million of his non-guaranteed salary next year into a non-guaranteed roster bonus in 2015. Switches money down the road and since it is not guaranteed, it doesn't affect the cap if you release them but it does make it possible to lower the cap hit next season by 2 million after accounting for the million added through the signing bonus this year, if you wanted to keep him.

#25 DeAngelo's #1 Fan(CRA)

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 11:11 AM

What about converting 3 million of his non-guaranteed salary next year into a non-guaranteed roster bonus in 2015. Switches money down the road and since it is not guaranteed, it doesn't affect the cap if you release them but it does make it possible to lower the cap hit next season by 2 million after accounting for the million added through the signing bonus this year, if you wanted to keep him.


Possible...

Question, if you could part with him today and knew for a fact you could use the cap savings on a very solid starting S or G. Would you?

In the scenario you have super powers and know the new guys works out

#26 R0CKnR0LLA

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 11:12 AM

If we cut DWill we'll save $17.25 million over the next three years. And we can replace him with a guy that will make less than $2 million over that same period. That's all you really need to know.

#27 panther4life

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 11:15 AM

If we cut DWill we'll save $17.25 million over the next three years. And we can replace him with a guy that will make less than $2 million over that same period. That's all you really need to know.


Dead money does matter though but I understand what your saying......

I have spent way too much time worrying/trying to figure this poo out. Just gonna have to trust Gettleman to make the right moves.

And pie and rep for everyone in this thread. I much prefer talking about this kind of thing vs what cam wore to school lst Thursday. Plus you all are mature enough to not get in pissing matches over differing opinions.

#28 Frash Brastard

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 12:32 PM

i have no problem with deangelo staying if he wants to play for vet min for the next few years

good luck getting him to agree to play for that though

#29 panthers55

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 12:54 PM

Possible...

Question, if you could part with him today and knew for a fact you could use the cap savings on a very solid starting S or G. Would you?

In the scenario you have super powers and know the new guys works out


FIrst I would use the cap savings to ensure we have a replacement for him. People seem to forget that Stewart is coming off ankle surgery. Everyone assumes he will be fine. I hope so but ankles and knees are the problem for backs at any age. Then if there were any left over, I might look elsewhere. I for one and not convinced there are 6th round 1600 yard backs out there for the taking in free agency or the draft.

#30 top dawg

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 01:43 PM

hmm, out of curiosity, does anyone else think Deangelo was limited last season in an attempt to make him look like he was not worth the salary he was going to be paid the following year as a way to get him to restructure in the off season. Crazy I Know.


Nah. I think that Rivera was making decisions he deemed best for the team, like most coaches. He was focused on winning football games and keeping his job, not concerned with D-Will's cap implications.


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