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#1 stirs

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 08:06 AM

Obama's second term ends with

Higher Unemployment
More on food stamps
Higher poverty rate
Higher taxes
Exponentially higher debt
Weaker military
Worse race relations
More divided country
Less confidence than ever in government

Will it have been a successful presidency? Normally, the answer would be a resounding no, but certain nuts and bolts issues and measurments do not seem to matter currently. It is all about the new sets of standards they feed us to rate their success.

Kinda like saying my car is wrecked, in a ditch, flat tires, windows busted out and the motor is blown. Our current feeling would be that we have a great car because the hood ornament is shiny.

#2 cookinwithgas

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 07:24 PM

If you are still as off the deep end then as you are now, It will indeed be a resounding success.

#3 SZ James (banned)

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 07:51 PM

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#4 PhillyB

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 08:10 PM

as populations grow, so do raw numbers, which is why looking the totals alone rarely provides an accurate statistic. "the debt is higher than it's ever been" is a misnomer because it ignores the fact that most presidents left office with a higher national debt than when they started. you've got to look at diachronic analyses like growth and development to really make an accurate statement either way.

also success is an operative word because what gives the word meaning is the extent to which an individual's life has been improved by decisions directly relating to the presidency (and, of course, you're going to get all kinds of different answers depending on who you ask.)

keep in mind also that categories like "divided country" are incredibly simplistic terms in which to judge a term in office as they ignore the symbiosis between opposing ideologies and the effect of this conflict/propoganda on public opinion that forms these types of divisions.

#5 PhillyB

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 08:11 PM

tl:dr version: idk and it's probably not that simple

#6 cookinwithgas

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 08:16 PM

If it's "probably not that simple", stirs "probably won't be able to post anything meaningful about it".

#7 Delhommey

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 08:20 PM

So "higher debt" and "weaker military" are both key measurements.

I think I see stirs' out here.

#8 stirs

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 08:21 PM

as populations grow, so do raw numbers, which is why looking the totals alone rarely provides an accurate statistic. "the debt is higher than it's ever been" is a misnomer because it ignores the fact that most presidents left office with a higher national debt than when they started. you've got to look at diachronic analyses like growth and development to really make an accurate statement either way.

also success is an operative word because what gives the word meaning is the extent to which an individual's life has been improved by decisions directly relating to the presidency (and, of course, you're going to get all kinds of different answers depending on who you ask.)

keep in mind also that categories like "divided country" are incredibly simplistic terms in which to judge a term in office as they ignore the symbiosis between opposing ideologies and the effect of this conflict/propoganda on public opinion that forms these types of divisions.


I am certain that many like Reagan were remembered fondly for the Berlin Wall and outlasting the USSR for instance and getting the economy turned around. At the same time, he increased debt quite a bit, but did drop taxes. So his was a mixed bag. But, he was an actor and could give quite a speech, so his overall approvals were quite high.

Just wondering what numbers and judgements would lift Obama up as most of his in the afforementioned catagories are not good. The redeeming numbers if you will. Course there are 3 more years. Lots of people count the healthcare thing as his crowning achievement, but too early to tell how that one is going to turn out.

#9 PhillyB

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 08:38 PM

yeah i'd say the passage of "obamacare" is going to be his legacy (though we'll have to see how the next four years go.) and that, of course, depending on who you ask, is going to be the hinge upon which he is judged as a success or a failure

#10 Kevin Greene

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Posted 24 February 2013 - 10:40 PM



#11 rodeo

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 02:31 AM

So "higher debt" and "weaker military" are both key measurements.

I think I see stirs' out here.

nah bro Reagon totally strengthened the military and also lowered the debt. It's simple you just have to cut taxes.

#12 GOOGLE RON PAUL

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 03:21 AM

yeah i'd say the passage of "obamacare" is going to be his legacy (though we'll have to see how the next four years go.) and that, of course, depending on who you ask, is going to be the hinge upon which he is judged as a success or a failure


from the looks of things, gay marriage may be a part of his legacy as well.

i'm in a difficult position re: obama because the bulk of his policies are poo, but his administration's stance that DOMA is unconstitutional is a big fuging deal for millions of people. and then of course there's PPACA which is p shitty compared to single payer but better than what we have had and again it's something that will improve the quality of life for a bunch of people (though you could argue that if republicans had won in '08 we'd have "mccaincare," modeled off of "romneycare" in the exact same way as "obamacare"). BUT then we see these sequestration and debt ceiling negotiations and he nearly trips over himself to cut taxes and social programs. i want to believe that he's just been put in a tough situation by the half of congress which refuses to cooperate with a president who has the audacity to be democratic AND black, but he seems way too willing to fug the poor in order to come across as some kind of great "centrist" king of compromise

all in all i think that, unless he goes full nixon or something, history will be kind to him (deserved or not)

#13 twylyght

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 11:04 AM

race card - check

#14 cookinwithgas

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 07:03 PM

I am certain that many like Reagan were remembered fondly for the Berlin Wall and outlasting the USSR for instance and getting the economy turned around. At the same time, he increased debt quite a bit, but did drop taxes. So his was a mixed bag. But, he was an actor and could give quite a speech, so his overall approvals were quite high.

Just wondering what numbers and judgements would lift Obama up as most of his in the afforementioned catagories are not good. The redeeming numbers if you will. Course there are 3 more years. Lots of people count the healthcare thing as his crowning achievement, but too early to tell how that one is going to turn out.


drop taxes = drop taxes one year, raise them next 7, but not enough to mask his spending...but he gave a great speech.

Not invading another country and losing thousands of American lives there based on bullshit would be apparently a fantastic accomplishment.

Clinton hardly did anything but have sex with that woman but he has great approval ratings too


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