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How about cutting Beason instead of Willliams.


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#46 TheRumGone

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 12:37 AM

I don't like the term primary ball carrier....key cog is more appropriate.

Newton has always been that...it isn't changing next year IMO. Newton's running threat is what makes him special. Not wanting him to be special bc you are worried about a 2 yr old brick house getting hurt ....seems like Gettlemen is stuck in the old way of things. Ron/Cam IMO will wake him up in think...

Rivera likely is a lame duck however ...which is a shame. I personally believe in Ron. He just needs a more complete team. I think he is a good coach unlike many


I don't think Gettleman is necessarily stuck in the old way of things. He has voiced what pretty much a lot of us have said. That the read option is good as just that, an option.

#47 CRA

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 12:43 AM

I don't think Gettleman is necessarily stuck in the old way of things. He has voiced what pretty much a lot of us have said. That the read option is good as just that, an option.

I agree. Was an option in 2011, was an option for 3 who made the post season this year. Newton asked for it in 2011....Chud didn't bring it here.

Cam will continue to run. He will call his own number, designed, breakdowns, whatever. Cam runs.

Hell at 37 years old, Steve Young ran 70 times in 15 games. Steve ran....always did. You don't just have a multi theat guy not run bc not running works for guys who can't run.


Gettlemen isn't shutting Cam down. That is Ron's QB....Ron and Cam ain't taking the wheels off. Wheels didn't come off once Ron calmed Chud's over played read zone stuff down.

#48 TheRumGone

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 12:45 AM

I agree. Was an option in 2011, was an option for 3 who made the post season this year. Newton asked for it in 2011....Chud didn't bring it here.

Cam will continue to run. He will call his own number, designed, breakdowns, whatever. Cam runs.

Hell at 37 year old, Steve Young ran 70 times in 15 games. Steve ran....always did.

Gettlemen isn't shutting Cam down. That is Ron's QB....Ron and Cam ain't taking the wheels off. Wheels didn't come off once Ron calmed Chud's over played read zone stuff down.


Yea i grew up watching Steve Young in Cali. Guy had a lot of concussions. Obviously don't want that for Cam, but its the nature of the beast.

#49 panthers55

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 12:46 AM

I see what you are saying. But the coaches decide how many designed "run" plays Cam is going to get. Obviously they don't want him to get hurt, but you have to utilize Cam's multi-dimensional talent. So Gettleman can say, no Cam is not running the ball anymore and that's final? You said that the GM controls the big picture, when in reality what you are saying is that the GM has a say in what plays are called (the details). I know we can debate this to death, but thats kind of how I took it anyway.


i think you are confusing general philosophy with the details which is the play callling. Here could be a hypothetical conversation. Gettleman says that he doesn't want Cam to run designated plays on the read option and in the redzone as a steady diet. Rivera asks if that means none at all or just not more than 2 or 3 a game. Gettleman says look if Newton is dropping back and sees a huge hole over the middle of course he is going to run. He can be plenty effective on broken plays and roll outs where he breaks contain. But these are passing options where he saw a ton of daylight not designed plays to run. Rivera says that he won't call many run plays unless they are keying on the pass and giving them the run as which point he wants to use what the defense is giving them. Gettleman says that makes sense to him just don't get him hurt.

Gettleman isn't calling plays just discussing the overall philosophy.

#50 CRA

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 12:48 AM

Yea i grew up watching Steve Young in Cali. Guy had a lot of concussions. Obviously don't want that for Cam, but its the nature of the beast.


Steve also was one of the GOAT....bc Steve was allowed to be Steve. No other way to play.

I mean, at 37 Steve was still going at it.....yet people thinks at 23 Cam should hang it up. Cam isn't even close to showing all his potential yet....

#51 TheRumGone

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 12:58 AM

Steve also was one of the GOAT....bc Steve was allowed to be Steve. No other way to play.

I mean, at 37 Steve was still going at it.....yet people thinks at 23 Cam should hang it up. Cam isn't even close to showing all his potential yet....

Agree.

#52 Kevin Greene

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 01:20 AM

I agree. Was an option in 2011, was an option for 3 who made the post season this year. Newton asked for it in 2011....Chud didn't bring it here.

Cam will continue to run. He will call his own number, designed, breakdowns, whatever. Cam runs.

Hell at 37 years old, Steve Young ran 70 times in 15 games. Steve ran....always did. You don't just have a multi theat guy not run bc not running works for guys who can't run.


Gettlemen isn't shutting Cam down. That is Ron's QB....Ron and Cam ain't taking the wheels off. Wheels didn't come off once Ron calmed Chud's over played read zone stuff down.

Yea i grew up watching Steve Young in Cali. Guy had a lot of concussions. Obviously don't want that for Cam, but its the nature of the beast.


Comparing Cam to Steve Young?
A West Coast QB in Frisco who rushed the ball just over 700 times in his 15 year career and finally was forced to retire due to concusiion issues?

Cam has run the ball north of 250 attempts in 2 years.

You'd be better off comparing Cam to RG3 who in his 1st season rushed the ball 120 times, suffered a concusssion along the way and a major career threatening knee injury.

The Panthers have been very fortunate so far to have Cam avoid serious injury.
I want a Franchise QB behind center next year and the next decade as well.
Apparently Gettleman gets that and the head Coach better as well or I hope his ass goes out the door.
Cam will get plenty of opportunities to use his legs when plays break down and punish defenses when absolutely necessary.

Build a dominat Offensive Line and everything else will fall into place, especially wins on Sundays.

#53 L-TownCat

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 01:26 AM

Bottom line...

it makes a grand total of ZERO sense to cut Deangelo Williams. A restructure works in his case. And more importantly it gives the current GM a chance to put his fingerprints on the organization. So far Gettelman has started to lay the ground work for getting us out of Hurneys attempt at "full retard".

Restructure the guys we have to alleviate some cap pressure, fill a couple holes via free agency, draft BPA, have a strong season next year to lessen the blow when we finally make the "tough" call to cut some long standing members of the panther family.

And I didn't even break a sweat.

#54 panthers55

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 01:39 AM

Bottom line...

it makes a grand total of ZERO sense to cut Deangelo Williams. A restructure works in his case. And more importantly it gives the current GM a chance to put his fingerprints on the organization. So far Gettelman has started to lay the ground work for getting us out of Hurneys attempt at "full retard".

Restructure the guys we have to alleviate some cap pressure, fill a couple holes via free agency, draft BPA, have a strong season next year to lessen the blow when we finally make the "tough" call to cut some long standing members of the panther family.

And I didn't even break a sweat.


But....... But....... But

2 years ago Hurney paid him too much and we need to keep bitching until Williams is finally gone. How dare you try to bring reason and logic to this discussion and make it about Gettleman instead of Hurney.............

#55 Ivan The Awesome

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 02:37 AM

Restructures where you convert future non-guaranteed salary into option bonuses in later years keeps the total compensation the same, saves cap room, and by converting some of the current salary into a signing bonus the player gets more money up front in lieu of money he was likely never going to see. That isn't a pay cut given he gets more money up front this year he just sacrifices some non guaranteed money on the back end. It is a restructure as I said it was. It saves us cap room and mitigates the dead cap space if we release him down the road.


Can these be incentive based or performance based?

#56 CRA

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 07:04 AM

Comparing Cam to Steve Young?
A West Coast QB in Frisco who rushed the ball just over 700 times in his 15 year career and finally was forced to retire due to concusiion issues?

Cam has run the ball north of 250 attempts in 2 years.

You'd be better off comparing Cam to RG3 who in his 1st season rushed the ball 120 times, suffered a concusssion along the way and a major career threatening knee injury.

The Panthers have been very fortunate so far to have Cam avoid serious injury.
I want a Franchise QB behind center next year and the next decade as well.
Apparently Gettleman gets that and the head Coach better as well or I hope his ass goes out the door.
Cam will get plenty of opportunities to use his legs when plays break down and punish defenses when absolutely necessary.

Build a dominat Offensive Line and everything else will fall into place, especially wins on Sundays.


Steve Young played until he was 38. That isn't being forced to retire early.

He ran 70 times in 15 at age 37. He ran the freaking football....doesn't matter the scheme.....he ran.

There is no comparing RGIII and Cam. RGIII was injured in college and was a magnet for college....same holds true in the pros. That ain't Cam.

If Steve Young didn't take off....he wouldn't of been one of the GOAT. Part of his game. Keep Cam under C and it changes what he is....and that won't be a good change.

#57 CRA

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 07:07 AM

But....... But....... But

2 years ago Hurney paid him too much and we need to keep bitching until Williams is finally gone. How dare you try to bring reason and logic to this discussion and make it about Gettleman instead of Hurney.............


Hey look, you again....

Talking about Williams and his contract....

#58 panthers55

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 09:36 AM

Can these be incentive based or performance based?


Good question. If you look at Nakamura's contract, didn't they convert some of his salary into incentives based on playing time? I suppose if the player agrees to it, they can convert it into other categories. I guess that is where you really need to be an expert.

#59 Kevin Greene

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 10:38 AM

There is no comparing RGIII and Cam. .


derp

#60 CRA

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Posted 25 February 2013 - 10:43 AM

derp

double derp

Comparing Cam to RGIII is lazy. Just like it was with Vick.

RGIII is a lightly built player, with a magnet to contact, injured, with okay vision.....that was him in college. Same holds true as a pro.

That isn't Newton. He is a tank....great at selectively taking contact.....great vision. When was the last time he missed a game b/c of injury? Please go back a ways....

Black guy who runs doesn't = another black guy who runs.

Cam has always been a signifcantly better runner than RGIII. Don't let the track speed cloud things.


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