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Burning it all down

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[quote name='Mr. Scot' timestamp='1361850889' post='2144717']



It's an important distinction.

Is Charles Johnson's contract one of the "bad" contracts?
[/quote]

No way, Mr. Scot

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[quote name='Mr. Scot' timestamp='1361850889' post='2144717']



It's an important distinction.

Is Charles Johnson's contract one of the "bad" contracts?
[/quote]
Depends on whether he stay productive or not. Was he overpaid and was too much money guaranteed?? Absolutely... Would cutting him be disasterous to the cap? Of course.
But he was productive so instead of castigating him everyone is on board. So if he stays productive it may be an expensive but worthwhile expenditure. But if like Beason he gets hurt with an injury like a knee or achilles, the contract suddenly becomes the worse contract of the bunch.

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[quote name='Mr. Scot' timestamp='1361850889' post='2144717']




It's an important distinction.

Is Charles Johnson's contract one of the "bad" contracts?
[/quote]

It is a bad contract.....but one of the better ones. He is good, produces, young, and healthy. Can't say that about the real bad ones

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On another board we were kicking around the idea of "amnesty". Every team gets one contract a year they can burn if they choose no matter how big it is, meaning they can trade or cut one player & no cap hit. The contract simply voids & the money is just freed up. I'd love it but I can't see the player's union ever allowing it.

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[quote name='CRA' timestamp='1361847599' post='2144671']

2014 Cap Hits

Marty's payday bunch

Godfrey - 7.1 million
DeAngelo - 9.1 million
Big Money - 15 million
Beason - 10.75 million
Anderson - 5.4 million
Stewart - 6 million (prior to his restructure but I don't think it changes much)

They are all set to hurt us worse
[/quote] Anderson has got to go
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[quote name='Swaggasaurus' timestamp='1361855569' post='2144754']
Anderson has got to go
[/quote]
Godfrey too...he wil be getting paid like he is some sort of young Ed Reed in 2014

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I think we need a good balance between long term planning and "win now" moves. Under Hurney there were far too many moves that screwed us in the future just so we could be slightly better for the present, like trading away future picks and constantly restructuring contracts to push cap hits into the future. That type of approach never gives you consistent long term success.

Specifically I'd say dump some of the really bad contracts for guys that we don't need, Anderson, DWill, Gamble and maybe a couple more, to set us up better for long term. But I don't think we need to throw away this season completely, have a massive cut spree like in 2010 and go into full rebuild mode.

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Cam is in a critical stage of his development, I wouldn't want to mess that up by stripping this team down.

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[quote name='Mr. Scot' timestamp='1361848444' post='2144683']
How important is "winning now" vs building a team that can contend every year?
[/quote]


Either is better than what we have been doing the past 4 years, which is... neither.

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CJ didn't earn his pay either in my opinion.

No sacred cows, not on a sub 500 team

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[quote name='stirs' timestamp='1361883676' post='2144807']
CJ didn't earn his pay either in my opinion.

No sacred cows, not on a sub 500 team
[/quote]

Except that he was second amoung sacks for defensive ends and had more than any of the other top 10 money guys at the position.

Defensive End Salaries by year:

Name-----------------Sacks last year---------------Salary
1. Mario Williams------------10.5 sacks----------16 Million this year
2. Julius Peppers-----------11.5 sacks-----------14 Milion this year
3. Charles Johnson--------12.5 sacks------------12,666,667 this year
4. Jared Allen----------------12 sacks-------------12,210,012 this year
5. Chris Long-----------------11.5 sacks------------12,062,000 this year
6. Tamba Hali-----------------9 sacks---------------11,500,000 this year
7. Calais Campbell-----------6.5 sacks-------------11 Million this year
8. Tyson Jackson--------------3 sacks--------------10,985,000 this year
9. Elvis Dummervill------------11 sacks-----------------10,250,000 this year
10. Will Smith----------------10 sacks----------------10,233,333 this year


So I would say he's done a good job of earning his paycheck. Plus, after this season, we'll have gone through a majority of the guaranteed money. So we're in a better position with his contract than we will be if we signed another elite guy.

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[quote name='CRA' timestamp='1361847599' post='2144671']
2014 Cap Hits

Marty's payday bunch

Godfrey - 7.1 million
DeAngelo - 9.1 million
Big Money - 15 million
Beason - 10.75 million
Anderson - 5.4 million
Stewart - 6 million (prior to his restructure but I don't think it changes much)

They are all set to hurt us worse
[/quote]

But shouldn't the cuts be less sharp when they are released ?
FFS Hurndog...just FFS

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Little over 1 million per sack?

Don't quite see the economics there. I think that whole list is pretty over priced.

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[quote name='stirs' timestamp='1361885508' post='2144822']
Little over 1 million per sack?

Don't quite see the economics there. I think that whole list is pretty over priced.
[/quote]

That's the rate. The only defensive end with more sacks is JJ Watt, and he could get 150 millon to 200 million when he get his next deal.

Oh, and Cameron Wake who I thought played Outside Linebacker. I guess he converted this year.

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[quote name='Mr. Scot' timestamp='1361850889' post='2144717']




It's an important distinction.

Is Charles Johnson's contract one of the "bad" contracts?
[/quote]

In the short term it is not, in the long term it is. Still Dwill, Anderson, and Godfrey will all be cleared from the books next year and from the sounds of it we will replace them with cheaper FAs or Rookies we draft this year.

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Scorched earth scenarios are never a good thing for a pro organization. We've had one, it really didn't produce the desired result (which was a Hurney problem, but even more-so ultimately a J-Rich problem). Let's right the ship gradually, otherwise it will end up completely submerged on the ocean floor.

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[quote name='top dawg' timestamp='1361890239' post='2144920']
Scorched earth scenarios are never a good thing for a pro organization. We've had one, it really didn't produce the desired result (which was a Hurney problem, but even more-so ultimately a J-Rich problem). Let's right the ship gradually, otherwise it will end up completely submerged on the ocean floor.
[/quote]

We really didn't have one....

Hurney was here before and after it. He paid his guys. Who was axed last time of significance?

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[quote name='CRA' timestamp='1361892847' post='2144986']
We really didn't have one....

Hurney was here before and after it. He paid his guys. Who was axed last time of significance?
[/quote]

On the surface it would appear that no one of significance was "axed" except Pep (and not trying to get into semantics, but Pep was axed for all intents and purposes), but we cut Delhomme, Kemo, Damione Lewis, Hoover, and Diggs. Too many veterans (and in most cases, leaders) were jettisoned at one time. It wasn't necessarily axing the individual pieces unto themselves that killed us, but changing the whole dynamic of the team so quickly and drastically. All of us saw the result.

As far as Hurney paying his guys, he went awry. He overpaid, and that's why we are in the pickle we are in today, with Gett trying to come up with creative ways to clean up the mess that Hurney (and Richardson) compounded by getting all loosey-goosey with money. Hindsight is 20:20, but if J-Rich wanted to clean things up, he probably should have just went even further by letting some of the other guys walk if they had to be paid what, in retrospect, was unreasonable. It's like they went into shock after seeing their handiwork, and then went overboard.

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[quote name='top dawg' timestamp='1361896498' post='2145086']


On the surface it would appear that no one of significance was "axed" except Pep (and not trying to get into semantics, but Pep was axed for all intents and purposes), but we cut Delhomme, Kemo, Damione Lewis, Hoover, and Diggs. Too many veterans (and in most cases, leaders) were jettisoned at one time. It wasn't necessarily axing the individual pieces unto themselves that killed us, but changing the whole dynamic of the team so quickly and drastically. All of us saw the result.

As far as Hurney paying his guys, he went awry. He overpaid, and that's why we are in the pickle we are in today, with Gett trying to come up with creative ways to clean up the mess that Hurney (and Richardson) compounded by getting all loosey-goosey with money. Hindsight is 20:20, but if J-Rich wanted to clean things up, he probably should have just went even further by letting some of the other guys walk if they had to be paid what, in retrospect, was unreasonable. It's like they went into shock after seeing their handiwork, and then went overboard.
[/quote]

Hurney has always over paid his favorite players. On that whole list not one of those guys was not over the hill or just bad. Still what did Hurney do after he was given back control. The exact same thing. We are in this situation because JR did not fire Hurney with Fox. The only bright side is we drafted Cam under Hurney who Gambled on him.

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[quote name='Snake' timestamp='1361900703' post='2145209']
Hurney has always over paid his favorite players. On that whole list not one of those guys was not over the hill or just bad. Still what did Hurney do after he was given back control. The exact same thing. We are in this situation because JR did not fire Hurney with Fox. The only bright side is we drafted Cam under Hurney who Gambled on him.
[/quote]

Eh, he got some good pieces to build around Cam (as you said), Hardy, Johnson, Olsen, Kuechly, etc. He just lacked overall vision on which pieces to keep and which ones to let walk and now it's stuck us with some bad contracts. Not the end of the world.

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[quote name='Stroupe-a-loop' timestamp='1361903854' post='2145313']

Eh, he got some good pieces to build around Cam (as you said), Hardy, Johnson, Olsen, Kuechly, etc. He just lacked overall vision on which pieces to keep and which ones to let walk and now it's stuck us with some bad contracts. Not the end of the world.
[/quote]


His biggest blunders were in the draft and how he paid his people. Thoses are prob the two biggest things in football I might add.

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I love the guys on our team. Love them. If we could get rid of the main bad contracts excluding CJ I would be all for it. It means we wouldn't have to be sweating about locking up someone like Hardy, and we could actually go after a FA or two.

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[quote name='SCP' timestamp='1361847285' post='2144664']
I'm not in favor of ever tanking a season. NFL careers are too fragile. A team should put 110% effort into winning every season.
[/quote]
But what if Bob Ross was the Unanimous number 1 pick in the next draft?

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A salary cap purge isn't really what I'd call "tanking a season". It's essentially a rebuilding year.

Valid that you don't really win a lot of games in a rebuilding season.

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