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Mr. Scot

Burning it all down

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He just hired a new GM...to fix it all. That screams a do over sooner or later. Rearanging Marty's guys isn't the most likely outcome.

Biggest mistake JR made was not keeping Fox/Hunrey a package deal. New GM when Fox was fired would have started gutting Marty/Fox guys for his own players and for his new coach.

We are still plaqued by the Fox era

Agreed. JR holds on too long and he will hold onto these players too long it seems because I also agree that Gettleman screams do over NOW (why later? hasn't that been the issue?). But it isn't happening. Keeping the coach is indicitive of that. JR will hold on too long there, as well, once again. I have a feeling Gettleman has little say in some areas of this team, sadly. If Gettleman is to fix it all why is he stuck with Hurney's hires? Like I said the issue is at the top, no amount of do overs will fix that.

How important is "winning now" vs building a team that can contend every year?

Has to be put into context. Winning now is extremeley important because JR is clinging to the coahes and players. He is not allowing a total rebuild. This is not even taking into account his ability to do what you say, build a contender for years to come/every year, when has our owner shown the ability to do that?? I'll take as many wins as I can get from this FO because frankly, I don't see the Panther's owner as having the ability to build a true, consistent contender. He really never has and has not hired others to do it/allowed to do it either. I don't see that being a possability until a new owner steps in.

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If they did this where I work...I would be out of a job, along with many others. Although the boss would save some hefty $$ he wouldn't survive to see 2014.

I want the best for the team but I think we will have to meet somewhere between the two extremes.

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Are we talking every Marty contract including Olsen, Kalil, Johnson, and Gross? Because I still want those guys. Or are we just getting the bad Goddfrey, Williams, etc. money off the books?

Either way, I'd probably just stay put. It's the NFL and any team in the playoffs has a chance. Plus bad contracts aren't the albatross in this league that they are in say basketball or hockey.

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Are we talking every Marty contract including Olsen, Kalil, Johnson, and Gross? Because I still want those guys. Or are we just getting the bad Goddfrey, Williams, etc. money off the books?

Either way, I'd probably just stay put. It's the NFL and any team in the playoffs has a chance. Plus bad contracts aren't the albatross in this league that they are in say basketball or hockey.

I think he is talking about the shock and awe contracts after 2010.

So that wouldn't include Olsen, Gross, Kalil

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Worth remembering: It's been written that some of these contracts are set to hurt us next year just as bad or worse than this year.

maybe a few, but for all 2011 contracts, that initial bonus is on year 4. Since it would count next year anyway (under the idea all of them are here through the end of '13) for all of that proration, the only acceleration is from year 5/2015. Excluding the other bonuses, of course, but still. Almost every contract there is more cuttable by '14. If Rivera doesn't work out, there's going to be a lot of turnover.

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Didn't we do that in 2010 when we dumped all the vet contracts to go young and cheap??? We see how that worked out...........

Dumping everyone for down the road would be stupid and extreme. If we simply do better with the new contracts we have moving forward, within a few years the bad contracts will work themselves out as the players either finish their contracts or their guaranteed money finally makes cutting them palatable. In this case easing the bandaid off slowly by removing one or two bad contracts per year is much preferable to just ripping the bandage off and starting over again.

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Im sick of tanking every season in order to contend in the future. We've been tanking seasons since 2009. When does the future begin?

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Didn't we do that in 2010 when we dumped all the vet contracts to go young and cheap??? We see how that worked out...........

In fairness, the same guy who created the mess that was cleaned up was left in charge and proceeded to create a new one.

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Nope, because that would mean getting rid of Charles, helllllll no.

No it wouldn't, that's not a bad contract. To someone not a Panthers fan it looks like a fat over rated paycheck but that man is gonna earn it and he is still very young.

It's an important distinction.

Is Charles Johnson's contract one of the "bad" contracts?

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It's an important distinction.

Is Charles Johnson's contract one of the "bad" contracts?

Depends on whether he stay productive or not. Was he overpaid and was too much money guaranteed?? Absolutely... Would cutting him be disasterous to the cap? Of course.

But he was productive so instead of castigating him everyone is on board. So if he stays productive it may be an expensive but worthwhile expenditure. But if like Beason he gets hurt with an injury like a knee or achilles, the contract suddenly becomes the worse contract of the bunch.

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It's an important distinction.

Is Charles Johnson's contract one of the "bad" contracts?

It is a bad contract.....but one of the better ones. He is good, produces, young, and healthy. Can't say that about the real bad ones

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On another board we were kicking around the idea of "amnesty". Every team gets one contract a year they can burn if they choose no matter how big it is, meaning they can trade or cut one player & no cap hit. The contract simply voids & the money is just freed up. I'd love it but I can't see the player's union ever allowing it.

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2014 Cap Hits

Marty's payday bunch

Godfrey - 7.1 million

DeAngelo - 9.1 million

Big Money - 15 million

Beason - 10.75 million

Anderson - 5.4 million

Stewart - 6 million (prior to his restructure but I don't think it changes much)

They are all set to hurt us worse

Anderson has got to go

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Anderson has got to go

Godfrey too...he wil be getting paid like he is some sort of young Ed Reed in 2014

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I think we need a good balance between long term planning and "win now" moves. Under Hurney there were far too many moves that screwed us in the future just so we could be slightly better for the present, like trading away future picks and constantly restructuring contracts to push cap hits into the future. That type of approach never gives you consistent long term success.

Specifically I'd say dump some of the really bad contracts for guys that we don't need, Anderson, DWill, Gamble and maybe a couple more, to set us up better for long term. But I don't think we need to throw away this season completely, have a massive cut spree like in 2010 and go into full rebuild mode.

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